Handicap Index and *** Optishot Tour

[HWoods]

Will, I know how you feel, its easier for a higher handicap to make pars than it is for you to make birdies. But take last tournament for instance, you finished 6th with one bad round. That's a high finish for 2/3 rounds of good golf. You have to compare it to everyone else. You CAN win with -8, the reason I know is you shot the rounds to get yourself that low. The numbers don't lie.

John, we are always open to suggestions. Show me what the middle 6 rounds would look like vs what we have now if you like. Please PM it to me. Maybe use 10 players or so with various handicaps.

[IAN.HOGGARD]

I understand how you feel Will. I felt the same off -6. I've shot some low rounds but not very often. My performance dropped recently because I felt I had to shoot 6 under just to get back to even par.

I now try not to put pressure on myself that way !! I try to play against par. I'm more interested in the overall stats & trying to keep my average score as low as possible.

[JohnMeyer]

Here results from my sheet for you Jason

Event #	Event	Handicap	Rating	Slope	Gross 1	Gross 2	Gross 3	Gross 4	Round 1 +/-	Round 2 +/-	Round 3 +/-	Round 4 +/-	Handicap for Next Tournament
5	Eagles	-8											-8
4	Birdseye	-6	75.3	137	63	79	67		-10.1	3.1	-6.8		-8
3	Phoenix	-3	75.1	148	68	65	75		-5.4	-7.7	-0.1		-6
2	Warwick		72.7	129	69	73	64		-3.2	0.3	-7.6		-3
1	Bethpage		73.1	140	67	74	80		-4.9	0.7	5.6

[Willymakit]

I have suggested this before for new players wanting to play in the league. Is that they have to play 6 practise rounds in various conditions and use that has a handicapp before they can play in a tournament.

[Willymakit]

Here results from my sheet for you Jason

Event #	Event	Handicap	Rating	Slope	Gross 1	Gross 2	Gross 3	Gross 4	Round 1 +/-	Round 2 +/-	Round 3 +/-	Round 4 +/-	Handicap for Next Tournament
5	Eagles	-8											-8
4	Birdseye	-6	75.3	137	63	79	67		-10.1	3.1	-6.8		-8
3	Phoenix	-3	75.1	148	68	65	75		-5.4	-7.7	-0.1		-6
2	Warwick		72.7	129	69	73	64		-3.2	0.3	-7.6		-3
1	Bethpage		73.1	140	67	74	80		-4.9	0.7	5.6

But here's the thing. Your taking my best scores from each event and saying this is what I have to shoot to break even par. I know that' will never happen. I have 47 birdies in 12 rounds of golf and now I have to make 32 birdies in 4 rounds. Something doesn't add up here to be competive. You say numbers don't lie . Your right they don't when you take the best scores.

If the conditions were no wind and medium greens then yes I might beable to shoot -8. But with these conditions it a lot harder to make birdies. I played 3 rounds yrsdterday at pebble beach and was -5,-3 and plus 1. How do I compete in a handicapp league with a -8. I believe I'm about a -4 to be competive

[Willymakit]

Will, I know how you feel, its easier for a higher handicap to make pars than it is for you to make birdies. But take last tournament for instance, you finished 6th with one bad round. That's a high finish for 2/3 rounds of good golf. You have to compare it to everyone else. You CAN win with -8, the reason I know is you shot the rounds to get yourself that low. The numbers don't lie.

John, we are always open to suggestions. Show me what the middle 6 rounds would look like vs what we have now if you like. Please PM it to me. Maybe use 10 players or so with various handicaps.

When you finish 13 strokes from first place in a handicapp division to me that's a issue to be addressed. Then you say I had 2/3 rounds that were good. Your right I did. But we always forget about the bad scores that need to be included in a handicapp

[JohnMeyer]

I understand how you feel Will. I felt the same off -6. I've shot some low rounds but not very often. My performance dropped recently because I felt I had to shoot 6 under just to get back to even par.

I now try not to put pressure on myself that way !! I try to play against par. I'm more interested in the overall stats & trying to keep my average score as low as possible.

The thing is if you do then shoot -6, its actually a -8.7 compared to the course rating so your handicap would go even lower

I think if you just think that a average round score is RATING + Handicap then psychologically that may help. So for you Ian a Par round for you would be 74.7+ (-6) so you should hit a 69 youve played to your handicap. Will show as (+3) but is actually a par for this course playing off your handicap

[JohnMeyer]

Will, I know how you feel, its easier for a higher handicap to make pars than it is for you to make birdies. But take last tournament for instance, you finished 6th with one bad round. That's a high finish for 2/3 rounds of good golf. You have to compare it to everyone else. You CAN win with -8, the reason I know is you shot the rounds to get yourself that low. The numbers don't lie.

John, we are always open to suggestions. Show me what the middle 6 rounds would look like vs what we have now if you like. Please PM it to me. Maybe use 10 players or so with various handicaps.

Will work it through and see how it comes out. However I like the current system, as think it gives leaderboard a far more realistic look when it comes to the final scores. If we as amateur golfers played these courses then be suprised if we even got near the scores we get as shown on Optishot. To change caps to make people score even lower just looks a bit "EA Sports" to me

As long as it effects everyone the same then no complaints here. I just think maybe taking out the extremes that could skew the average may make things a little more accurate

Ill work it through later

[JohnMeyer]

Did some data work through with hogan woods, trying various different handicap methods, and to be fair best system was actually the one we use.

However as I thought initially, having looked at it more it, the best way to make sure everyones caps are fair is just to make the Rating for each course set the same as the par score. This way handicaps will be adjusted in comparson to how we shot to the par of the course, not to the rating, so should see people playing to course par when playing to level handicap, as opposed to course rating

This would be a simple change, requiring no adjustements to website system, which I think works well. All it takes is when Catman sets up tournament he sets rating to course Par (ie,72) rathing that the rating off the external scorecard source he uses.

This will mean everyone handicap is then worked out in relation to the par of the course and should prove far more realistic, as i dont believe the courses play the extra 2 or 3 shots that the ratings suggest on Optishot, which is artificially lowering peoples handicaps

1st Round Eagles, I didnt play particularly brilliantly but would say played a decent round and probably what I should be hitting and only missed missed a few so was a solid +2 round,. It shouldnt therefore be recorded on my handicap calcs as a -0.6 round in my opinion

Ill work through all the leaderboards and see how they all work out

[Willymakit]

Did some data work through with hogan woods, trying various different handicap methods, and to be fair best system was actually the one we use.

However as I thought initially, having looked at it more it, the best way to make sure everyones caps are fair is just to make the Rating for each course set the same as the par score. This way handicaps will be adjusted in comparson to how we shot to the par of the course, not to the rating, so should see people playing to course par when playing to level handicap, as opposed to course rating

This would be a simple change, requiring no adjustements to website system, which I think works well. All it takes is when Catman sets up tournament he sets rating to course Par (ie,72) rathing that the rating off the external scorecard source he uses.

This will mean everyone handicap is then worked out in relation to the par of the course and should prove far more realistic, as i dont believe the courses play the extra 2 or 3 shots that the ratings suggest on Optishot, which is artificially lowering peoples handicaps

1st Round Eagles, I didnt play particularly brilliantly but would say played a decent round and probably what I should be hitting and only missed missed a few so was a solid +2 round,. It shouldnt therefore be recorded on my handicap calcs as a -0.6 round in my opinion

Ill work through all the leaderboards and see how they all work out

Hey john. Can you post the results you came up with?

[JohnMeyer]

Still working through the data mate, but have just done yours, youd be playing this tournament at -5

Will only require Catman to set rating of course to course par for each event, so if this had been done since Bethpage (my earliest data point) this you'd be off -5 instead of -8.

I think this is closer to your actual performance, as compared to Par 72, your scores from your best 5 round from your last 10 are -7, -7,-5, -4, -3

Once Ive got all data formatted Ill post it on here.

[JohnMeyer]

Right all data is input into an excel file for 6 different players

I think the results of just changing the ratings to course par for each event will give us much closer tournaments, with players net scores more reflecting ability. it requires no change to website or admin system, simply when setting up the tournament set the Rating of the course the same as the Par of the Course

Obviously if we do this from now will take a further 9/10 rounds for the old Ratings based calculations to be cleared out of the system and all calculations to be based on Par Ratings

I say again only for clarity, I firmly believe the use of the external ratings so in theory make the Par of the course higher is incorrect on Optishot and we should all be scoring against Par for handicap purposes, not against rating.

The spreadsheet can be found here http://www.filedropper.com/parratings

As you can see it shows the Adjust gross score (ESC adjusted), the +- that the calculation uses and the resulting "live handicap" after each completed round in the top columns

The section at the bottom below each player shows the players score at each completed event should they have been using the ParRating Handicap System, and the handicap they would have been playing to at that event

It also shows the players current handicap

Catman you notice I have come up with a system for formulating a new players handicap.

Basically it works as follows

1. New Player assigned Manual Handicap of -3 for their 1st Event
2. For 2nd event Player assigned Manual Handicap of their lowest Nett Score from the 1st Event minus 3 ( Eg, Lowest Score was Nett +4, so Handicap would be 1 for 2nd tournament)
3. For 3rd Event Player assigned Manual Handicap of Equal to their lowest Nett Score from the 1st and 2nd Events (Eg. Best 1 from Last 6 or 7 Rounds depending if a major has been played)
4. For 4th Event Player handicap is Automatically calculated by the system using either best 4 from 9 or best 5 from 10 (depending if a major has been played so will have either 9 or 10 rounds)

I have also added the macro buttons on the bottom so you can input future scenario scores etc, adding regular or major rounds etc

[Willymakit]

Right all data is input into an excel file for 6 different players



I think the results of just changing the ratings to course par for each event will give us much closer tournaments, with players net scores more reflecting ability. it requires no change to website or admin system, simply when setting up the tournament set the Rating of the course the same as the Par of the Course

Obviously if we do this from now will take a further 9/10 rounds for the old Ratings based calculations to be cleared out of the system and all calculations to be based on Par Ratings

I say again only for clarity, I firmly believe the use of the external ratings so in theory make the Par of the course higher is incorrect on Optishot and we should all be scoring against Par for handicap purposes, not against rating.

The spreadsheet can be found here http://www.filedropper.com/parratings

As you can see it shows the Adjust gross score (ESC adjusted), the +- that the calculation uses and the resulting "live handicap" after each completed round in the top columns

The section at the bottom below each player shows the players score at each completed event should they have been using the ParRating Handicap System, and the handicap they would have been playing to at that event

It also shows the players current handicap

Catman you notice I have come up with a system for formulating a new players handicap.

Basically it works as follows

1. New Player assigned Manual Handicap of -3 for their 1st Event
2. For 2nd event Player assigned Manual Handicap of their lowest Nett Score from the 1st Event minus 3 ( Eg, Lowest Score was Nett +4, so Handicap would be 1 for 2nd tournament)
3. For 3rd Event Player assigned Manual Handicap of Equal to their lowest Nett Score from the 1st and 2nd Events (Eg. Best 1 from Last 6 or 7 Rounds depending if a major has been played)
4. For 4th Event Player handicap is Automatically calculated by the system using either best 4 from 9 or best 5 from 10 (depending if a major has been played so will have either 9 or 10 rounds)

I have also added the macro buttons on the bottom so you can input future scenario scores etc, adding regular or major rounds etc

This looks a lot better. Is this going to take effect immediately. ?

[JohnMeyer]

Ive just provided the info. It would be my recommendation that from the next tournament Course Rating is set to the par of the course as on Optishot.

Having spoken to Hoganwoods, it is not feasible to backdate any changes due to possible website issues so everyones handicap will obvious stay as is and then it will be be adjusted using the new ratings in the handicap calculations for all future events

As I said earlier, the changes may well take a few rounds to kick in and for anyone to see any major changes to their handicaps

Hopefully lots of you all have a look and agree this should give us more accurate caps in future

[JohnMeyer]

Macro Buttons dont work properly so please ignore them, works once but subsequent rounds it does wrong. My bad