ProteeVX Technical Spin Questions

[Greeko]

Hello All,

I have been watching every ProteeVX review on Youtube and trying to do as much research as possible.

I have stumbled upon some conflicting data and thought I'd present it.

The Friendly Golfer and Joe Lagowski on Youtube has some good in depth reviews.

The video that concerned me most was the Friendly Golfers most recent video was the "How Accurate is the ProteeVX"

Where the ball data and club head video showed an in to out path with a closed face yet the side spin number and the ball flight show a fade....

I really like Protees thinking outisde the box and using AI/no stickers for club data. I am just concerned about buying this and not being happy with it.

[RealGolf]

This is something that I see all of the time when using my VX. The issue I believe is that the face angle is being measured slightly too late. In the friendly golfer video you reference this can be seen clearly. From the top down video the face just prior to contact clearly isn't 7.8 degrees closed but it is just after the ball leaves the face as shown in these images. Protee are aware of this and will have it fixed up in a future update. What I would recommend for now is use the video to verify face especially with more lofted clubs and take the actual face number given with a pinch of salt. Hope this helps

[Greeko]

This is something that I see all of the time when using my VX. The issue I believe is that the face angle is being measured slightly too late. In the friendly golfer video you reference this can be seen clearly. From the top down video the face just prior to contact clearly isn't 7.8 degrees closed but it is just after the ball leaves the face as shown in these images. Protee are aware of this and will have it fixed up in a future update. What I would recommend for now is use the video to verify face especially with more lofted clubs and take the actual face number given with a pinch of salt. Hope this helps

That makes sense,

So what you're saying is the spin and ball flight are correct but the face angles are past impact (usually more closed).

Do you notice this on certain clubs? is it intermittent or pretty static.

Also how do they calculate the face to path? a 2.7 in to out and 5.1 closed should be 2.4 closed... Right?

[philtrick123]

Also how do they calculate the face to path? a 2.7 in to out and 5.1 closed should be 2.4 closed... Right?

2.4 closed with reference to the target line.

I have the opposite problem- I'm slightly over the top- out to in but with an open club face. My face shots start slight left and fade back to centre.

[Greeko]

Also how do they calculate the face to path? a 2.7 in to out and 5.1 closed should be 2.4 closed... Right?

2.4 closed with reference to the target line.

I have the opposite problem- I'm slightly over the top- out to in but with an open club face. My face shots start slight left and fade back to centre.

Thats what I thought... So why is the Protee saying 7.8 Closed (2.7+5.1)......

I have a similar shot shape, im trying hard to work on it, whats the biggest reason im getting a sim built!

[ProTee United]

This video has a lot of interference issues coming from the GCQuad flashes. VX spin images showing these flashes are completely unusable for the VX to get spin data from.

The 7.8 degrees closed face-to-path on that screenshot is how we present is based on swing path and face angle. Here is why (trying to explain as simple as possible):

The swing path is 2.7 in-out. This means that the club face on impact should be 2.7 degrees OPEN in order for face to path to be 0.
The horizontal dotted line is straight. The club face measured on impact relative to that horizontal line is 5.1 degrees CLOSED.

So you will first need a 2.7 degree closed face to get from that 2.7 degrees OPEN path to the horizontal line AND you need another 5.1 degrees to get to that closed face. This results in that face to path of 7.8 degrees closed.

Here is a Trackman video explaining this with samples:

--

We took a screenshot of the Quad comparison video where it was showing the advanced data + the video of the moment of impact.



The quad here says that the face was open 3.6 degrees. Unfortunately nobody can verify that, as there are no GCQuad images. The VX shows the vertical dots, which is straight. The impact here is showing a closed face (2 degrees is what the VX is saying). If if you draw a line through the dots the quad is using, it will also read closed. We are not sure why the Quad would read this as a 3.6 open face. We have a GC3 for testing, but it might be time for us to buy a Quad

Here is another screenshot we took from the video:



The face at impact showing on the ProTee VX shot video seems to be a lot more then 2.7 degrees closed . The yellow horizontal line (face angle the VX measured) compared to the hortizontal dotted line (straight, 0 degrees) looks a lot more dramatic. It could be related to the moment each unit defines as "impact".

--

All ball data points and club data points are measured separately. The club data points do not have any effect on the ball data points and vica versa. Only the ball data points are used to simulate the ball trajectory. This means even if the VX is not able to measure any of the club data points, the ball will still launch with the expected shot shape. Ball speed, ball launch angle, ball horizontal angle, spin axis and total spin are the only data points needed to simulate ball flight.

[Greeko]

This video has a lot of interference issues coming from the GCQuad flashes. VX spin images showing these flashes are completely unusable for the VX to get spin data from.

The 7.8 degrees closed on that screenshot is how we present is based on swing path and face angle. Here is why (trying to explain as simple as possible):

The swing path is 2.7 in-out. This means that the club face on impact should be 2.7 degrees OPEN in order for face to path to be 0.
The horizontal dotted line is straight. The club face measured on impact relative to that horizontal line is 5.1 degrees CLOSED.

So you will first need a 2.7 degree closed face to get from that 2.7 degrees OPEN path to the horizontal line AND you need another 5.1 degrees to get to that closed face. This results in that face to path of 7.8 degrees closed.

Here is a Trackman video explaining this with samples:

--

We took a screenshot of the Quad comparison video where it was showing the advanced data + the video of the moment of impact.



The quad here says that the face was open 3.6 degrees. Unfortunately nobody can verify that, as there are no GCQuad images. The VX shows the vertical dots, which is straight. The impact here is showing a closed face (2 degrees is what the VX is saying). If if you draw a line through the dots the quad is using, it will also read closed. We are not sure why the Quad would read this as a 3.6 open face. We have a GC3 for testing, but it might be time for us to buy a Quad

Here is another screenshot we took from the video:



The face at impact showing on the ProTee VX shot video seems to be a lot more then 2.7 degrees closed . The yellow horizontal line (face angle the VX measured) compared to the hortizontal dotted line (straight, 0 degrees) looks a lot more dramatic. It could be related to the moment each unit defines as "impact".

--

All ball data points and club data points are measured separately. The club data points do not have any effect on the ball data points and vica versa. Only the ball data points are used to simulate the ball trajectory. This means even if the VX is not able to measure any of the club data points, the ball will still launch with the expected shot shape. Ball speed, ball launch angle, ball horizontal angle, spin axis and total spin are the only data points needed to simulate ball flight.

Thank you for going into so much detail in response. This gives me a lot of confidence in your company and product when you put so much care into it. I agree the Quad is giving us interference and cant trust the data.

I enclosed the wrong link for the video. This is the Video "Can You trust ProteeVX" around 1:30

So from what ive gathered your ball data is very accurate. The belus screen shot shows:

Club Data
-in to out Path of 2.7
-closed face angle of 5.1
Now you would think this would equate to a ball that draws... Correct?

Ball Data
-Side spin of 534 RPM or 3.6 Deg Right



In the image below it shows the ball clearly travelling right, I believe the Ball data is very accurate. The club Data shows the Club Face closed (5.1 Deg). From this data do you think there a potential the ProteeVx is measuring the Club face angle a little late after impact?



Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response.

[ProTee United]

When you look at the actual video, you can see on the ball spin validator that the the DOTS perfectly follow the logo on the ball. This means that the ball spin is measured correctly. The VX got the correct RPM AND the correct SPIN AXIS of 3.6 right (which is really not a lot of spin axis).

The vertical dotted line is "straight". If the face is exactly on that line, then you would have a perfectly straight face angle.
You need to see the full video with ALL frames in order to properly analyse what happened.

Here is the first frame we could capture from that video.




On this frame you can see the club face almost straight compared to the dotted line. On the next frame you can see the face already closed maybe 1 degrees.



On the impact its past that dotted line. If you look really close you can see part of the club already underneath that dotted line. The club is also pushing down into the turf.



It might look that there is no club on the right of the vertical dotted line, but that is the shiny black part of the wedge which you also see on the second image.



The follow through in the image you uploaded showing the face way past the ball, is not showing a full follow through. Its showing a push forward. That is why the closed face on impact is "almost" the same as a 4 frames later.

The face on impact is definitely showing as closed on the ProTee VX video.

With a flat face, the so called "physics of golf" do not always make sense. The effect could go either way and is very unpredictable if the spin axis is very small. The effect off the spin axis (draws/fades) with these flop shots is also minimal.

[Greeko]

When you look at the actual video, you can see on the ball spin validator that the the DOTS perfectly follow the logo on the ball. This means that the ball spin is measured correctly. The VX got the correct RPM AND the correct SPIN AXIS of 3.6 right (which is really not a lot of spin axis).

The vertical dotted line is "straight". If the face is exactly on that line, then you would have a perfectly straight face angle.
You need to see the full video with ALL frames in order to properly analyse what happened.

Here is the first frame we could capture from that video.




On this frame you can see the club face almost straight compared to the dotted line. On the next frame you can see the face already closed maybe 1 degrees.



On the impact its past that dotted line. If you look really close you can see part of the club already underneath that dotted line. The club is also pushing down into the turf.



It might look that there is no club on the right of the vertical dotted line, but that is the shiny black part of the wedge which you also see on the second image.



The follow through in the image you uploaded showing the face way past the ball, is not showing a full follow through. Its showing a push forward. That is why the closed face on impact is "almost" the same as a 4 frames later.

The face on impact is definitely showing as closed on the ProTee VX video.

With a flat face, the so called "physics of golf" do not always make sense. The effect could go either way and is very unpredictable if the spin axis is very small. The effect off the spin axis (draws/fades) with these flop shots is also minimal.

Thank you very much for the detailed analysis,

I really appreciate your time and effort in this. I will be purchasing a ProteeVX, the support seems amazing!

[ProTee United]

Good to hear you will be purchasing a ProTee VX!

If you need any technical support, or have any questions we have live support available 24/7 via online chat: https://proteesupport.com



You can find ProTee VX info and changelogs here: https://csc.protee-united.com/hc/en-...Launch-Monitor

Our support team can be reached via: support@protee-united.com

If needed you can report software bugs in the ProTee Labs software.

Happy Golfing!