Random high ball speeds

[Clevited]

Does anyone get occasional really high ball speeds when hitting driver? I have been getting them here and there. They are always on solid strikes and sometimes I will rattle off more than a couple in a row.

To clarify, I see 15 to 20 mph ball speed increases over the norm on occasion.

[SomaPLR]

When you say you tee it up high, how high are we talking here? Like putting it on a pencil high?

[Clevited]

3 inches roughly, and I do tee up behind laser dot, level skytrak, use alignment stick etc.

[SomaPLR]

when I mean about posting, do a 10 shot history of the measurable and calculated data. Not the individual shots on the range (i.e. where it's showing peak height, etc)

[Clevited]

I can post a list of my good contact drives just with the dozen or so I have taken pictures of for my own reference. I look at them as motivation of what I can possibly achieve so I have hung onto them. I can post them as a list not pictures. I think I will just go ahead and do that, and I will also try and get in a good range session yet this week.

You must remember though, while I am also skeptical about these high numbers, I am incredibly sporatic. I can swing anywhere from 105-122 for sure (these are official from trackman). I vary greatly in contact do to my swing flaws, vary in speed due to my release point and mechanical efficiency on any given day. My goal is to find that max efficiency and refine it to be in control as well.

I bought Skytrak to help me with swing mechanics kind of like SSR can help with knowing whether you are improving your swing efficency/speed etc. I also bought it to see what my potential is raw speed wise should I be able to marry repeatable, sound mechanics with power. I want to know my realistic ceiling in this regard.

If this helps understand why these high numbers confuse me but also excite me a little, I once used my exilim high speed camera to record a close up of my club head at 1000 fps. I placed a home made scale as close to the head as I could (ala mythbusters) and swung as hard as I could (using the swing mechanics I was experimenting with at the time) just to see what my body could possibly do. The poor resolution of the video, along with the poor maximum theoretical resolution of the camera (.001 seconds per frame) made my calculations have too much possibility for error. One quarter inch off in my measurement can result in a difference of over 10 mph clubhead speed. So given that, I calculated a clubhead speed maximum with a 43.75 inch driver to be between 113 and 135 mph. Do I really hit at or near that upper end??? I want clear answers, only way might be to bring Skytrak to my local pro and hit golf balls for a while with it and their Trackman running simultaniously.

[DirtyGarry24]

Post deleted. Misinterpreted a post.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

The thing that really has me stumped is that IF you really are swinging that hard, and it sounds like you may very well be, then those numbers look like a quasi-believable (albeit nasty) looking shot. What do your shots look like outside? Fairly consistent or all over the place?

I would definitely ditch the yellow balls. Also, for one of the long drive guys at the PGA show, we actually raised his SkyTrak unit up about 2 inches because he teed it so high. Keep in mind that when you do this, the laser dot will be cast farther from the machine, so you need to make sure you keep the ball in the original position. See if that helps, as you may be teed so high that the ball is cropped off the top of the images.

[Clevited]

Yeah they are terrible weird shots, that doesn't surprise me, sometimes clubface is shutting so fast, and I hit near the heal a lot and low on face, still sweet spot area just not perfect. I was experimenting in controling a really really strong grip, super inside out swing to see what that did. I love to mess with mechanics of a golf swing.

Even if lets say, I tee'd it up too high without raising the Skytrak up, used a colored ball, white tee, white club etc, could it actually give me bonkers ball speed numbers? Wouldn't it just not read? I understand the bonkers spin numbers,and maybe horizontal launch angle, but the vertical la and ball speed if I understand how its measured by the skytrak, should be fairly bullet proof unless there is something technical about how those are measured that I am not aware of.

[Clevited]

10+ of what I consider, realistic ball speed numbers during a few seperate skytrak range sessions, all at or really near the center of the club strike wise.

BS (mph), Backspin, LA (degrees), Sidespin, HA (degrees)

178,4873,12,2226L,10L
178,1784,11,1076L,16R
169,2734,16,Center,Center
179,2103,4,1352L,Center
179,1895,7,866R,3R
168,2857,17,Center,2L
174,4394,11,314L,8L
169,3465,15,1583L,6L
169,2622,16,301R,5R
170,1969,15,1113L,Center
170,2229,14,386L,4R
172,4273,14,2102L,4L
169,5313,11,687R,9L
169,3396,10,1104R,2R
168,4415,11,1435L,8L
175,1799,9,1051L,Center
176,1799,8,1051L,17R
175,2076,12,Center,9R
171,2051,15,355L,Center
171,2375,16,Center,4L
175,4851,14,1732R,7L

Club is 7.5 degree (or there abouts), and I am swinging with an extremely strong grip as you can see by the really low and left balls. Was just messing with this for fun, gave it two weeks, and now back to normal grip so my next session should be some more normal LAs and HA.

[Miura Mario]

10+ of what I consider, realistic ball speed numbers during a few seperate skytrak range sessions, all at or really near the center of the club strike wise.

BS (mph), Backspin, LA (degrees), Sidespin, HA (degrees)

178,4873,12,2226L,10L
178,1784,11,1076L,16R
169,2734,16,Center,Center
179,2103,4,1352L,Center
179,1895,7,866R,3R
168,2857,17,Center,2L
174,4394,11,314L,8L
169,3465,15,1583L,6L
169,2622,16,301R,5R
170,1969,15,1113L,Center
170,2229,14,386L,4R
172,4273,14,2102L,4L
169,5313,11,687R,9L
169,3396,10,1104R,2R
168,4415,11,1435L,8L
175,1799,9,1051L,Center
176,1799,8,1051L,17R
175,2076,12,Center,9R
171,2051,15,355L,Center
171,2375,16,Center,4L
175,4851,14,1732R,7L

Club is 7.5 degree (or there abouts), and I am swinging with an extremely strong grip as you can see by the really low and left balls. Was just messing with this for fun, gave it two weeks, and now back to normal grip so my next session should be some more normal LAs and HA.

In my opinion (which doesnt mean much) if your able to get that type of ball speed without 100% proper swing mechanics your true swing potential is definetely huge - you mentioned early extension - Id bet that your humping your average swings, getting stuck and flipping at those - you must have played hockey or bball growning up.. thats some nuts speed.

[Clevited]

I only played sports with friends, except some as a very young kid. You should see my swing from a few years back before I decided to pursue my current swing goals, it was laugh worthy, casted club right away, no weight shift, all muscling it. Terrible. I only got to where I am at now by hitting thousands of balls. I have destroyed 3 driver heads and a shaft this year alone. Thats how many balls I hit. If you are in your 20s or 30s, maybe even 40s, its not too late to find your max, just a lot of work.

It is interesting to ponder what I can achieve with better mechanics, I hope to find out someday.

[SomaPLR]

10+ of what I consider, realistic ball speed numbers during a few seperate skytrak range sessions, all at or really near the center of the club strike wise.

BS (mph), Backspin, LA (degrees), Sidespin, HA (degrees)

178,4873,12,2226L,10L
178,1784,11,1076L,16R
169,2734,16,Center,Center
179,2103,4,1352L,Center
179,1895,7,866R,3R
168,2857,17,Center,2L
174,4394,11,314L,8L
169,3465,15,1583L,6L
169,2622,16,301R,5R
170,1969,15,1113L,Center
170,2229,14,386L,4R
172,4273,14,2102L,4L
169,5313,11,687R,9L
169,3396,10,1104R,2R
168,4415,11,1435L,8L
175,1799,9,1051L,Center
176,1799,8,1051L,17R
175,2076,12,Center,9R
171,2051,15,355L,Center
171,2375,16,Center,4L
175,4851,14,1732R,7L

Club is 7.5 degree (or there abouts), and I am swinging with an extremely strong grip as you can see by the really low and left balls. Was just messing with this for fun, gave it two weeks, and now back to normal grip so my next session should be some more normal LAs and HA.

Those ball speeds seem to be quite a bit more "normal" for a high swing player. Something is going on with those misreads I'm just not sure what it is to be honest - because you just don't pick up 20 mph of ball speed on a lucky strike. If you can consistently match those ball speeds with the right mechanics, you should be consistently carrying the ball over 300 yards with that ball speed. If you could work on producing a more consistent AoA (which will control your spin numbers), swing path and HLA, you could probably pick up 20-25 yards of carry.

[Clevited]

Yes, and as I have said before, I am all over the place. I chock it all up to my mechanics on that certain day. I am the type that will hit at the range and just suck for the first 15-20 balls, maybe more, with every club. Then my timing for what I feel is my early extension hip thrust gets going and I am able to put more and more effort into the swing and know I will make good contact. I went out to the garage yesterday to hit and I struggled to get over 170 ball speed on good strikes, couldn't hit my 9 iron over 150, I just didn't have it yesterday at all. My variablity with my technique and variablity therefore with how much I feel comfortable going after it makes for some very sporatic ball speeds. This is why I have a small amount of excitement about the higher numbers even though I feel they are too out there to be true. Just seems so odd, no idea how the Skytrak could misread those so badly, hence why I started this thread. I was hoping for some technical explanation.

Also, I went back to my traditional grip yesterday (strong but not rediculous), hit 15-17 vertical launching 170 mph balls that carried pretty consistently 295 and up, that is my normal ball flight, very high draws. I tee ball way up and play it way left in my stance. I just couldn't give it without major issues, my back couldn't take the amount of hip thrust I had to do to make it work yesterday.

[SomaPLR]

Yeah I can tell by your number you have EE

And you don't want to put your back into a compromising position. You may know this, but if your hips are that active you're probably getting stuck and then flipping the club, which is causing the disparity in the numbers in all directions and LA - when the timing is good its really good, but when it's off it gets wonky. Trust me, even as a low cap I've struggled with it over the years.

Take this tip for what its worth (and not that you asked, you can tell me to go fly a kite): go grab a 7 iron, and at address lift your toes on both feet completely off the ground (which will change your weight balance entirely into a more proper position and more towards the middle or heels). Keep those toes pointed at the sky on your entire swing, or at least have that intent. It promotes the proper balance and weight transfer and is a key to stop humping the goat, without changing a whole lot of mechanics in your swing. It will keep you off your toes keep you butt back against the line for a better sequence for not spinning out. It can be an extreme to some, but I to this day still have that intent on all my swings.

[Clevited]

I have not heard of that drill before, I will try it next time I hit balls. Garage has been too cold, 40 degrees and below makes the hand shock on mishits unbearable for me, fricken balls get like rocks. If I can ever get rid of that EE, I will be a much better and more confident golfer, not to mention I will be able to reliably go after the ball on occaision. Love being the "second guy" in two man scrambles.

[keither5150]

Can anyone hit 16 or 17 degrees off center? Misreads? If you put 176,1799,8,1051L,17R into the trajectory optimizer, it is a crazy shot.

[Clevited]

Yeah I am not sure about those HAs, a few are quite extreme but if anything is going to do that it would be what I was messing with, an extremely closed face, having to swing way in to out. Can be a big block right, can be a big push hook, or can be a wicked low pull left. It would have made sense to me if those numbers were popping up with only extreme left or right horizontal launch, but they have been happening on straight shots too.

[GungHoGolf]

Are you using a protective case with your SkyTrak? If so, it may be partially blocking the cameras and causing occasional bad data.

Also, make sure you don't have anything white/shiny/reflective behind you in the room that SkyTrak may think is a ball.

SkyTrak_Seth , giving us access to the photos used on each shot would sure go a long ways in helping diagnose weird stuff like this. Do you have access to our photos, or are they only used locally and deleted after each shot?

[GungHoGolf]

Clevited, the first gen FMJ case had off-center mounting screw holes which caused some occasional crazy HA readings of 15 deg or so offline, and, iirc, higher ball speeds, too. I know because I have one. No matter which version case you have, make sure the grill holes line up perfectly with the unit's camera and laser ports. If you have the first run of FMJ, you cannot mount it in with screws.

[Clevited]

I will check tonight. I think mine was one of the second batches, seemed centered to me but I will double check. I will also take it out of the case for a while next time I hit and see if any of these big numbers come back. I am almost positive I had it more than a couple times when I had the unit in the Skytrak plastic case as well. I still don't understand how ballspeed can be miscalculated if the way Skytrak deciphers ball speed is with two very quick photos unless there is blur, and the image is low resolution. I would think it would have to "mistake" something for a ball in one of the photos to do anything like that. Really wish I could obtain more technical detail as to how it deciphers ball speed.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

GungHoGolf , images are not stored nor can we display them to the public - it's a licensing thing with Rapsodo. I do fully understand the benefit in being able to see them though.

[Clevited]

So a little update. I have removed the skytrak from the FMJ case and have had two long sessions with the driver since. First day I did not feel strong, couldn't get passed 170 ball speed again. Second time I felt much more limber and strong but couldn't get past 175 this time. Neither time have I had an "out there reading". I will take a few days off and let my body recover and the garage hopefully warm up (was below 40 degrees F both times). I believe each time I had the wierd numbers I had run my heaters and got the air temp above 50 degrees, and had infrared heat warming me directly. So to be sure it was an issue caused by the protective case I will try and repeat those conditions once my long range session aches go away.

[TorchRedRob]

dumb idea here... infrared heat, infrared flashes. maybe the heater is interfering with the lighting and photos if the heater was nearby?

[Clevited]

Not a dumb idea but I already considered that, heaters are a ways away and not point at cameras at all. So "shouldn't" be causing any issues.

[Clevited]

Interesting update.

I hit some more today as it was decently warm in my garage. I couldn't get ball speed over 171 this time with driver. I had absolutely no abnormally high ball speeds. So that is a good thing BUT....

I decided to hit a 9 iron for a while to work on mechanics. I have mostly been hitting driver because I feel that shows more easily where my swing needs work so its been a while since I have hit irons much. I was consistently hitting ball speeds of 122-126, with 21-24 degrees LA, and 6-8k rpm backspin. Last time I hit 9 iron much, I thought maybe my occasional 120+ ball speed was the same anomally, I guess not.

I think that translates into a fairly high top end possibility with the driver, which would make the crazy numbers I have hit not inconceivable. Its very possible the stars align every so many swings and I swing efficiently and made good contact but poor direction and crazy spin.

I will consider this variability with my swing, it has to be due to my "capability" being so incredibly unrefined and unpredictable.

I will keep working on the swing and test with fmj on again but for now I will consider this case closed.

Thanks everyone for all the input and help. It was much appreciated.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

I've enjoyed following this thread, but I've had that conclusion in my head for awhile now

[Clevited]

Thank you for your help. I will be sure to let you know if I do ever find out beyond a doubt I am somehow tricking the cameras but given my swing variability, its more likely its me as crazy as it seems.

[awisnia]

Also enjoyed reading. In golf, as they say, "the mind is a terrible thing". P.S. What was your number one swing-thought to get from 140 to 170 mph?

[Clevited]

awisnia

I am not sure I was ever at 140 bs except for really bad mishits but three things have helped me, two are swing thoughts and one is just a goal.

Swing thoughts.... I think to myself swing fast not hard, and arms and hands relaxed so I can whip them through the ball.

Goal... I am driven by a number I want to reach, and by narrow minded friends who think it can't be done without being huge, or buff or supremely talented. I work out NONE, I am not huge or really tall, I just hit thousands of balls, and experiment to find a swing that works for me, ala Bubba Watson.

I have pretty well realized my speed goal, now its refining my swing to be reliable and repeatable. I play pretty good golf when I am confident in my swing, and nothing feels better than greening a long par 4 from the tips, or hitting one out of thick rough over tall trees onto a green that only sheer speed can do.

[awisnia]

Thanks. Average BS on the tour is 168 and LPGA 140 per trackman

http://blog.trackmangolf.com/ball-speed/

http://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/

I'm with you on the hands. It's all about the lag in my mind. That, plus consistent contact in the sweet spot. When we play our annual one-club 9-hole tourney - I go with a 7 iron like most of the guys. The only way I get close to home in two is by focusing one the lag/release of my wrists. Maybe more time with the driver on SkyTrak is worth it...

[Clevited]

Keep working at it, I am a believer that if I can find speed anyone can, you just need to put the work in. Good luck!

[Clevited]

SkyTrak_Seth

Just to help set your mind even more at ease regarding this issue, I made a few swing changes and swung the shortest club I have hard as I could (even choked up 3 inches). Lets just say it indicates that my driver ball speeds I saw are 100% realistic when I am feeling strong and my mechanics are efficient.

If you want to know why I know this, the picture is a lob wedge (choked up to be effectively 33 inches long, and 60 degree loft)

I feel I can completely trust the numbers I see now, so that is a great thing. If all things are set up right, I also completely believe my wonky side spin and horizontal angles, super closed face can do that to you.

This thread could be closed too, I think this is a definitive answer to the original problem.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

Haha, very good to hear