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Any updates?
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I am pretty sure ST can see in the dark just fine but I never really noticed any difference in the garage before with less or more light. Its that infrared light that causes problems me thinks. I will mess around a bit again in the garage and toy with lighting. -
I've always thought this problem was light/sun related. In the sun my skytrak is off by 8-12 MPH with my driver.Comment
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The only time I've ever been able to exceed 160 was when practicing indoors with artificial light. It's been frustrating because the main reason I purchased ST was to work on upping my distance and accurately measuring ball speed. I may have to buy a mevo and compare... -
Cheaper option is Swing Caddie SC100. Less setup hassle and it is very accurate with ball speed. It will even give you very reasonable information on club head speed if you get it aligned behind the ball just right. Could possibly get for less than 100 bucks now. You also need less room indoors than mevo I believe.
My SC though is pretty much exactly 2 mph low, but that isn't a problem, it is consistent.
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I was messing around with the light levels in my garage as well. I had an overhead light that was more or less ligting the entire room . I switched that off and turned on a smaller much closer light and the ballspeed seemed to jump compred to my sc200 and Mevo. still reading lower numbers but most shots where within 4 mph vs the 8mph i saw before at the worst annd most of the shots where within 2 mph. I'm getting there but overall i have to say this seems like a ton work and effort to get this thing close. Beyond that im not sure i will ever trust it in the future . I'm going to forever be doubting it and checking against other units.
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The skytrak website actually does say performance will vary with different lighting...at least outdoors. But yeah..indoor lighting issues seems like it wasn't covered in the disclaimer. It also sounds like the high speed issue isn't known, at least based on Seth's comment earlier.
My take on the whole thing is it's a $2000 monitor that measures sidespin. For the majority of swing speeds and indoor conditions, it seems like it does the job. If you want more accuracy, indoors, you can get a gc2 for $4500-5000. If you use it outdoors, the flightscope xi+ measures everything plus some nice club data for $5000. The mevo and VC can measure distances, with no sidespin, for much cheaper. In the end, it seems like the skytrack fits where it should on the price and performance spectrum.
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The crazy thing is that I am seeing ball speeds that are at what they should be with driver indoors. I changed nothing, its just hot now instead of cold like it was in the winter and early spring. Mind is boggled. Last night I was hard pressed to get my VC to read my driver at all (too short of distance I am guessing) but read 9 iron just fine. Same thing as last time I tested inside. ST same or higher. Though I did get a couple that were 1 mph lower this time.Comment
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Is your unit in the exact same spot and is the ground perfectly level?Comment
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You know this questioning of ST ability to read accurately would largely go away if a guy could see what the ST sees. I want to be able to troubleshoot the image it takes and how it calculated what it calculated but Rapsodo won't allow that. I sure wish they would.Comment
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I wonder if they will ever release a version 2 to address some of the hardware issues many have seen on this thread..?Comment
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I would imagine at some point they will. I feel though that clever programming could solve some of these issues. I have no issues with ST other than the ball speeds after 140 or so. LA seems correct, shot shape is correct, spin is reasonably accurate. Oh I guess maybe the flight model could use a tweak. Spin decay would be nice.
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I always wondered why they don't release a HMT type addon. Maybe I'm assuming too much but since there's an USB out already..I can't think of why you couldn't add another camera unit and link through USB. It probably doesn't serve the simulator community but getting accurate club data would probably have a niche market. Maybe even tweak the flash to improve performance in the sun. Again, i'm probably oversimplifying since I don't know what about the lighting is causing the problem but since GC2 works fine in the sun, i'm assuming it may be tied to the flash system.Comment
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Got SC to pick up driver more reliably in the garage this time. Turns out I was hitting them a tad lower than typical for a while and it wasn't seeing the ball. I only hit about 20 balls and non were great swings or strikes this time but ST still read higher. There were a couple of lower by 1 mph mixed in, and one 3 mph lower this time but again the majority were over by 1 or 2 mph. So still definitely reading much better in my garage for some reason. Only guess is I have optimal lighting. I better not change a thing LOL.Comment
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Beyond lighting
In my garage i have two orientation options. One would put quite a bit of " things" well in the background, 20 ft from the camera, but still there none the less. The other has more or less a blank wall. Initially, I was oriented with the camera facing the direction of the clutter. Now I'm flipped and along with the lighting change my readings seem to have gotten much better. I wonder what would happen if we hung a black backdrop to help clarify things? -
Idk, worth a shot if you are willing to test? I have thought of this too but I just haven't gotten around to it. Short of ST telling us straight up what is going on, I think we would need a very systematic approach to testing what is creating ball speed errors. From the little I have observed, I would tend to lean towards lighting and background being two very big deals with this. I wonder if shoes you wear, and anything that is shiny would cause problems. Would a flat black painted driver be good than a shiny one? Than a white one? Do they cause consistent issues? Do these things effect anything else like LA, or spin readings? One of these days I would love to test this all. -
I’m guessing they just patented the idea of using a laser curtain...not necessarily used it. Laser curtain wouldn’t be nearly as sensitive to light or color as much as skytrak is. Seems likely if they are using dimple tracking for spin they are prob doing the same for speed.
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Patents Assigned to Rapsodo Pte. Ltd.- Systems and methods of analyzing moving objects
Patent number: 9955126
Abstract: According to some embodiments, the present disclosure may relate to a method including transmitting a microwave towards a moving object and receiving a reflection of the microwave reflecting off of the moving object. The method may also include determining a speed of the moving object based on the reflection of the microwave and based on the speed of the moving object and a flight path distance of the moving object, determining an optimal photograph timeframe when the moving object is in a field of view of a camera. The method may further include automatically capturing a plurality of images during the optimal photograph timeframe.
Type: Grant
Filed: August 19, 2015
Date of Patent: April 24, 2018
Assignee: RAPSODO PTE. LTD.
Inventors: Kelvin Soon Keat Yeo, Batuhan Okur, Lodiya Radhakrishnan Vijayanand - Measuring launch and motion parameters
Patent number: 9684009
Abstract: An example embodiment includes an apparatus for monitoring launch parameters of an object. The apparatus includes a transmitter optical subassembly (TOSA), a receiver optical subassembly (ROSA), a processing unit, and a camera. The TOSA includes at least one laser source configured to transmit a laser sheet along an expected flight path of an object. The ROSA is configured to receive light reflected from the object. The processing unit is configured to estimate a velocity of the object based at least partially on the received light. The camera is configured to capture one or more images of the object at a time in which the object passes through a field of view of the camera according to the estimated velocity.
Type: Grant
Filed: October 3, 2013
Date of Patent: June 20, 2017
Assignee: RAPSODO PTE. LTD.
Inventors: Batuhan Okur, Lodiya Radhakrishnan Viyayanand, Kelvin Yeo Soon Keat, Nyan Myo Naing - Measuring launch and motion parameters
Patent number: 9519003
Abstract: The technologies described herein relate to measuring launch parameters of a flying object, such as a golf ball or a baseball. The laser based technology enables a system that is low cost which can measure launch parameters of a ball. The launch parameters are measured and rapid feedback is provided on each ball motion event and the data of every single ball launch data is stored in the backend server. The system may include a transmitter optical subassembly (TOSA), a receiver optical subassembly (ROSA), a primary processing unit, a camera subsystem, a data processing, a feedback display unit, and a backend server.
Type: Grant
Filed: November 29, 2012
Date of Patent: December 13, 2016
Assignee: RAPSODO PTE. LTD.
Inventors: Batuhan Okur, Lodiya Radhakrishnan Vijayanand, Kelvin Yeo Soon Keat, Nyan Myo Naing - Image processing for launch parameters measurement of objects in flight
Patent number: 9171211
Abstract: An example embodiment includes a method of measuring launch parameters of an object in flight. The method includes capturing images of an object in flight. A radius of the object and a center of the object are identified in each of the images. A velocity, an elevation angle, and an azimuth angle are calculated based on the radius of the object, the center of the object, and pre-measured camera alignment values. The method further includes cropping the images to a smallest square that bounds the object and flattening the images from spherical representations to Cartesian representations. The method also includes converting the Cartesian representations to polar coordinates with a range of candidate centers of rotations. Based on a fit of the polar image pair, the spin axis and spin rate are measured.
Type: Grant
Filed: September 20, 2013
Date of Patent: October 27, 2015
Assignee: RAPSODO PTE. LTD.
Inventors: Kelvin Yeo Soon Keat, Batuhan Okur
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According to their patent, looks like at one time, or they still do, use those also for measuring ball speed. I don't think they ever display that value, they go with what is supposed to be more accurate and precise, the pictures. They admit in their patent, that they use low cost cameras for taking the pictures. This is where I feel the issues lie with higher ball speeds. Motion blur and how to accurately measure ball speed with that. If this is the case, some clever programming could, in my mind, correct our issues. I would like to also see what the light curtain triggers would spit out for ball speed, perhaps at higher speeds, those would be more accurate than pictures? Idk. -
My guess is that the laser curtain is one dimensional for all practical purposes. When the ball passes, light is refracted and hits a sensor. It must use the duration, magnitude, or other property of this measured refraction to provide a ROUGH estimate of ball speed. Good enough to trigger the camera while the ball ball is in view. Obviously a very fast ball speed will produce refracted light that is harder to pick up, so it makes sense that indoors works better for high ball speed golfers.
- Systems and methods of analyzing moving objects
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Awesome, thanks for posting that. I will be taking a closer look at the math, I didn't know you could access that stuff!
Edit: I started reading this but I will have to give it a good amount of thought. I have only ever seen a very hard to read patent of what was supposedly this product but this has much clearer language and seems accurate to how Skytrak actually works rather than a bunch of hypothetical crap to cover their butts patent wise.Last edited by Clevited; 07-11-2018, 04:39 PM.Comment
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I may have an update, albeit a disappointing one. I think I found my "higher" ball speeds indoors was a mirage. I had put up an old blanket to hit into as my net is full of holes. This had the effect of shortening the distance from tee to net by several inches (folded over blanket and it hangs off the net by a good ways). What I think is happening is my Swing Caddie is picking up ball speed right as it is starting to slow down in the blanket. It has quite a lot of give so it can easily be catching it every time in there for all clubs. I am not sure how fast it reads, nor am I sure where the window it reads is. Swing caddie will not record a ball speed when I really tag one with the driver, but it catches all other clubs just fine. This would explain why ST was faster than the SC in my bay but not at the range, even in low light conditions.
Just my theory, I will have to move things around and give the SC more space to be certain. It just came to me at work today that it could be the case. This means the few higher ball speeds are likely ST reading incorrectly, even if they could in reality be closer to real for me. They are too inconsistent even for me to be real.Comment
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So while I basically found out that my ST still has its same issues reading higher ball speeds, I do have an interesting possible fix. I have found that golf balls with the high visibility flakes in its paint color, get picked up seemingly better and more often I get ball speeds where I expect them. This could be highly sensitive to lighting in your sim bays, or it could be causing misreads for all I know. For those that want to test for themselves, try hitting the Titleist NXT TOUR S in bright yellow. They have this high visibility reflective paint.Comment
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I don't have any of either at the moment, I just remember trying them in the recent past and "seemingly" getting better ball speeds, and also quicker reads with less no reads. I asked Seth to test but he didn't find the balls I was talking about. I think I will PM him and send him a pic of the exact kind and see if he can rip a few and see what he thinks. I will try and pick some of both up and test. I will try and do it a little more scientifically even though it might take me forever being that I am not a very consistent ball striker. Doesn't help me see patterns with equipment performance very well lol.Comment
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Went out at lunch and bought some cheaper taylormade distance balls with the high visibility yellow color. I will try those vs some Taylormade TP balls I have. Ball speeds really should be very much the same with driver unless the high vis balls are picked up better by ST like I think they are.Comment
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