Distance/ball speed woes continue

[JSPNW]

I decided to do the update to the latest version of software from ST and have another go indoors, using real balls with the garage door open in bright light conditions. I used real balls in good condition making sure the marking faced the ST for every shot. I did the test with P and a 50 degree wedge. Iron is a Ping i200 and the wedge is a Vokey SM6.

The carry with the P would not get past 108 yards, the shots were straight so no issue there. This is basically 20 yards shorter than hitting of grass outside and measured with a lazer.

The carry with the 50 degree wedge was 85 yards, outside of grass this club goes 110 yards every time.

The shots were off a True Strike gel mat which is supposed to replicate grass.

I then reset the ST on the none gel section of the mat which meant the lie was a touch harder, I was expecting to see the balls go further due to less turf interaction, but in reality they were identical to hitting off the gel mat.

Having downloaded to the latest version I can see all of the new features in ST which look awesome, but in reality what use are they if the distances recorded are so far out.

May I go further. Before I bought the ST I did a lot of research part of which was on the ST website. On there they have a comparison of ST v Trackman which shows the average carry distance for an iron between ST and T as being half a yard and 0.2 of a yard for Driver. Knowing what I know now I have to say that this is seriously misleading. I know Seth reads these posts and wonder what his thoughts are. Why are the ST distances so far out of reality? and nowhere near what the website is saying?

[Shardak]

You could buy a speed radar to compare to skytraks ball speed numbers. I had a Swing Caddie SC200 for a while (bought and returned it to amazon since I ended up buying skytrak). Swing Caddie will measure ball speed, which in my case was always very close to what Skytrak shows.

If ball speed measures the same, that would rule out one variable.

Or try hitting outside on grass with skytrak, and see if the data matches what you actually measure at the range (skytrak can be tricky to get working in sunlight though).


For me, using skytrak indoors only, the numbers are spot on with my real-life numbers. I have used both a CCE mat, and a fiberbuilt, and did not notice any differences in numbers between those 2 mats. Fat shots are heavily penalized on both, much more so than real grass.

[Dave Lee]

Yeah if you tried indoors and outdoors you might just have a dud. I would just return it or try to exchange for a new one. From reading on here the repairs seem to be a hassle.

I agree with the other comment...the ball speeds should be right on, if functioning correctly. As mentioned in my previous post, it matches flightscopes low end radar. I was going to bring my skytrak to a lesson this weekend...but since it is outdoors, I don't think it will work well. I'll bring my mevo and compare that to trackman. If that lines up, it should also validate skytraks numbers. (At least out of the sun numbers)

[Clevited]

Dave,

I find Skytrak will be shorter than actuall when reading high spin shots. I have an example below. That carry distance differs by about 10 yards vs reality. This can also be seen if you compare Skytrak's numbers to flightscope trajectory optimizer. I have both posted below. Trajectory optimizer more often than not, is more accurate for all of my clubs.

[Dave Lee]

Dave,

I find Skytrak will be shorter than actuall when reading high spin shots. I have an example below. That carry distance differs by about 10 yards vs reality. This can also be seen if you compare Skytrak's numbers to flightscope trajectory optimizer. I have both posted below. Trajectory optimizer more often than not, is more accurate for all of my clubs.

You may have seen this blog already..but I'm guessing skytrak's algo is just short in general? Seems like skytrack is significantly shorter than than GC2 as well

https://exploringimpact.blogspot.com/2017/03/efficiency-spin-axis.html

But, vs reality (trackman outdoor) it seemed like his numbers were right on. That algo is probably tuned to mortal numbers. 120+ ball speed with 10k spin is impressive haha. I think that would be 7-6 iron ball speeds with 10k spin for a lot of people haha.

[Clevited]

Yeah that was a PW lol.

[JSPNW]

Gents, this is all extremely interesting but the harsh fact is that ST is nowhere near to being accurate in its measurement of distance which at the end of the day is what the game is all about. Algos don’t matter a jot if what they produce is unreliable. I’m swiftly coming to the conclusion that ST is nothing more than a sophisticated toy.

Back on on the practice ground today, hitting 7 irons this time. Actual distance 170 yards, ST 150 yards.

[Clevited]

I respect your point of view but mine isn't nearly that off. I see 10 yards generally at the most and I believe that to be entirely caused by lack of spin decay in their algorithm. Your difference of 20 yards is odd, in my experience, there are contributing factors to being that off like too much direct sunlight, wind that Skytrak does not account for, temperature changes things some, slope of the range, comparing roll out or carry, range balls flying differently than initial launch conditions would indicate.

Lots of things. I find that owning any launch monitor, you have to truely understand everything about it so you can determine when numbers are a bogus misread or not, or if the machine needs recalibration or repair.

Just my opinion/experience with ST.

With that, I would love to see an improved algorithm and ability to manage higher ball speed error.

[HappyGilmore102]

Hi

My SKytrak is very accurate, my numbers match real life even with driver.

My driver ball speeds vary from low 150 mph's to 160 mph.
I've just tried the flightscope optimizer, inserted some skytrak numbers and the differences were no more than 3 yards with driver.

I've said it time and time again, when my numbers seem off i like to blame skytrak, but i always discover that the problem is ME doing something wrong.

5 Handicap player.

SKytrak has been independently tested against trackman as far as i know, and the company that makes skytrak used to make the vector launch monitors, so i'm sure that they have the maths and algo's etc... down to a fine art at this stage.

Skytrak has really dialed in my distances, and i've never been more confident about my yardages in real life.

I think people who don't like what they see with skytrak should just sell it and get a GC2. That way, you get the best monitor available and should have no complaints.

But......... the GC2 forum has a lot of guys complaining about it not being accurate, and sending it in to be recalibrated etc etc etc..........and some guys don't like launch monitors at all. THey go to the range and laser a yardage.

Whatever floats a persons boat, but calling skytrak a TOY i think thats a little harsh.

If you don't like it SELL IT.

[Dave Lee]

I get why you think its garbage. I would be pissed too if i dropped around 2k for something that didnt work. But keep in mind this isnt new technology. Skytrak has been out for awhile now and theres plenty of people and data showing it is much more accurate than what you are seeing. Trust me..,i was one of the first 50 users of the mevo...new products are much more annoying.

As others have said, if it isnt working...return it. Keep in mind the next level really is a step above in costs. Gc2 has a consumable flash that requires you to refister with foresight ($500) and then fork out a few hundred for the module. So if you buy used thats definitely something to consider.

[caldiver]

I took my SkyTrak to the range a few nights ago (sun was already fully set) where there are florescent lights over each stall. I didn't have a single no-read, but at least 1/3 of my shots differed quite a bit between actual ball flight / distance and what was shown on the ST.

I saw the biggest differences in low launch angle and skulled shots. For example, I hit 2-3 low flight balls with my 3 wood that carried 130-145 / total 180-190 IRL but only 70-80 yards carry / 90-110 total on the SkyTrak. The actual yardages were confirmed with my laser rangefinder. I also saw iron shots that were carrying 10-20 yards shorter on the SkyTrak vs. IRL.

I did however have the SkyTrak on the same mat that I was hitting from (I didn't have anything with me that the ST could be placed on in front of the hitting mat). The SkyTrak never visibility moved throughout the entire session but I'll make sure to bring stuff with me next time to keep the ST off the mat and at the same hitting level as the mat.

[wterryiv]

I can confirm since a few updates ago my distance on irons are way off. I struggle to get my PW out to 115.
Had a gap fitting today on a gc2 and my PW was 125 carry with roll to 130 which is what I see on the course.


Not sure what changed but it's annoying.

[JSPNW]

Must admit I have not yet undertaken the ST v Trackman challenge but would endorse what wterryiv notes above in that ST distances with any club are well short of reality.

I set the ST up with a laser, the ST is level with the mat, the lighting is good.

Maybe next update we'll see the algorithm tweaked?

[AndyF]

I can confirm since a few updates ago my distance on irons are way off. I struggle to get my PW out to 115.
Had a gap fitting today on a gc2 and my PW was 125 carry with roll to 130 which is what I see on the course.


Not sure what changed but it's annoying.

If you have all of your data saved in your SkyGolf360 account then surely it's just a case of looking back at the data and comparing. Are the ball speeds the same, are the spin rates and launch angles the same? If they are then it's a change in the algorithm. If they aren't then maybe it's something else that is wrong.

Likewise, JSPNW, what are you seeing in terms of ball speeds, spin rates and launch angles? Have you tried putting the numbers into the Flightscope Optimiser to see if there are any anomalies?

Andy

[Clevited]

Everyone I feel, needs to make sure that when you do compare your Skytrak to another launch monitor for accuracy, if at all possible, do it in the same location at the same time. Swings can be so variable, and can also be slower/different depending on the environment you are swinging in (small garage vs large indoor bay vs outside). This is just so we can eliminate any error and compare as accurately as possible.

[trumb1mj]

Agreed. The true test is getting on a Trackman and/or Flightscope to compare numbers. Doing a side by side with GC2 seems error prone due to the simultaneous setup issues.

[AndyF]

Also, I don't mean this to sound disrespectful but those people saying that they know their 'on-course' yardages are you saying that, for example, you hit from a perfectly level lie into a green or fairway that is at the exact same elevation with no wind and a perfect strike and you then measure your exact yardage that you pitch the ball at?

Can you hit that exact same shot 100 times and come up with the exact same number every time on the course?

Or are you saying that when you are, for example, 130 yards from a green that you hit your PW and you normally hit the green? As that depends on a lot of different factors.

Andy

[Dave Lee]

Simulator swing is definitely a factor a lot of people aren’t used to. On the course my 8 iron goes 155-160. This is what I get on the range with skytrak or Mevo ( when I’m hitting 100 plus balls vs a few shots). But every time I take my iron to pga superstore and use gc2...I start getting a few 180 yard shots. Part of it is the the rock hard balls they have in the bays. But a lot is is just start swinging out of my shoes. The same happens with my friends when they use my skytrak or go to pga. They just start swinging as hard as they can. In my garage, everybody’s distances drop by a significant amount. Maybe it’s partly lighting but you can tell everybody is gettting all crunched up due to the confined space.

[Clevited]

I definitely swing much more free at the range. My hitting surface, combined with having a car near me in the next stall, combined with being surrounded by nets makes me even a little hesitant with a wedge. My bay is however consistent, hasn't changed and I compare to another device (swing caddie) at the same time, I am able to see if there are any REAL changes in the Skytrak. The Swing Caddie should be static and never change, so Skytrak ball speed relative to that are what tell me what I need to know for now.

[Morini]

I tested mine outdoors with wedges. There was no wind, no direct sun, and I hit off the same mat I use indoors. I only had about 70 yards to play with. It was within a yard most of the time vs laser of actual carry if I used white premium balls. If I used range or colored balls, 10% plus error. I am near sea level, and juiced ST just under 2% by setting elevation to 1500 feet.

[AFC1886]

My skytrak has continued to be very wrong on driver, but now my unit is laughably short with my irons as well. It is now reading my 9i distance as around 120 carry. This is 25-30 yards short compared to trackman, gc2, and real world data. Not sure what to do at this point. This unit is worthless if I know the numbers arent close to being accurate.

Hi, i purchased my Skytrak around 2 weeks ago, after initial problems connecting in network mode, I had it working great, accuracy and yardage with all my irons, carry seemed spot on as well as total distance, then I tried the driver, it's made me lose faith instantly, example, my 7 iron carry is around 150/155 yards, when I connected well with driver, I'd wait, then believe this is going to be good, then I watch as number for carry shoot up to a poor 88 yards, maybe it was just no registered properly? So I try again, then again 😔 then again, all poor maximum distance with a driver was around 140 yards, I read the Forums, tried everything, including using black tees, adjusting height of unit, moving ball around laser, still all poor, then I pull out my 4 iron and smash it, perfect reading again, what is going on, I've contacted skygolf, waiting for email, how that'll help I don't know, I signed up to the wgt package for £180 or so, if I can't hit driver I'm returning the Skytrak, I'll save for a GC2, can updates really help?

[Dave Lee]

To eliminate your setup try hitting your 4 iron off the tee at driver height. If it goes past 150, try your 3 wood.

[Whiskeyjack]

My first comment question would be what colour is your driver head?
The Skytrak setup certainly can be a fickle beast. I took me a while to get everything on mine set nicely.
For example I had friends over to play a game and it worked great for right handed but missed a lot of the shots for the lefty we had here.
After thinking about it i noticed when i switched the the unit to left side, directly behind he lefty player was my white garage door. I tried putting a piece of cardboard behind him leaning against the door and presto all was fine.
I guess what I'm saying is sometimes it can be a simple fix,......and sometimes not.
Hope yours is.

[Morini]

The other comments are spot on. Most likely culprit is reflective driver head or shaft. If not that, then the ball is not seen properly by the sensor due to trajectory or setup height issue