Clubhead & Ball Speeds Are Correct...but Yardages Are Hugely Inflated...

[Rogala]

3on3putt commented "You say "skytrak can never be as accurate as a camera based system." Skytrak IS a camera based system. ??"

Sorry, I meant to write "combo-based system"...as in radar + camera, and I corrected it above.

I have been using a radar based Swing Caddie system for the past 8-10 months, and have also used Trackman and Foresight equipment from time to time, plus another high end camera-based teaching system at a local club.

I bought the SkyTrak because of sim capability plus the fact that it is an inexpensive camera based system which I could use at the same time as my radar based system (as the Swing Caddie sits behind the ball) and therefore have two seperate data sets to compare. My Swing Caddie mis-reports spin numbers (although in a consistent way) and I was figuring the SkyTrak would provide me dead accurate spin numbers, but would perhaps be weaker in some other areas related to club data reporting.

[Rogala]

I agree with wbond. SkyTrak is a camera based unit and only measures ball data. Setup is key. The unit is very accurate. The mat will also make a difference.

Thank you for responding. The mat is a home made gel insert mat which I built based on the instuctions found on this forum page. Been using it for about 8-10 months with my Swing Caddie unit.

Perhaps it is the feet on the medal box which are causing a height differential issue and therefore resulting in some oddities ?? See above post for details on that.

As far as how the SkyTrak measures performance, it was indeed my understanding that the unit measured only ball data, not club data, namely the following parameters:

Ball Speed, Launch Angle, Backspin, and Side Spin

I have read that it then makes a best guess type calculation to come up with clubead speed and other reported parameters. The weird part about my issue is that it SEEMS to be caluclating clubhead speed about right and the measured ball speed looks OK too (well, maybe a little high)...but the predicted carry and total yarages were 15-30 yards longer than my IRL distances...and also quite differnet from the numbers my Sky Caddy is giving me (I have both set up at the same time)..

RPMs looked wonky to me...so I thought this MIGHT be a clue to determining what the issue might be.

People are mostly being helpful...

Thanks for any info you can give me...as I see you a re super experienced poster and Sim guru...

[Rogala]

Skytrak does not measure any club data so it’s best to ignore it. Also, skytrak is a camera based system and its quite accurate. Make absolutely certain your clubs are clean, it will affect spin. Use a premium ball and have the logo facing the unit. Make certain the bottom of the skytrak is at the same height as your hitting surface. This should help with your spin.

Will do tomorrow. I'll make sure all the clubs are clean and I will try positioning the ball logo right at the unit. I was hitting with a brand new Callaway ERC ball, a brand new Bridgestone ball and a brand new Vice ball earlier today when I saw the wonky (over inflated) carry and total yardage numbers....since (as soon as I saw the over-inflated distnaces) I suspected the ball...hence my trying 3 different brands.

I had the SkyTrak set up on a seperate mat right next to my hitting mat...but the top surface of both mats are exactly the same height, and the top surfaces of both are about 3/4" to 1" above a concrete floor due to the mats being mounted to a plywood base.

However (!!): I just realized that I have the SkyTrak in the metal case with feet on it.

Do I maybe need to remove the feet or just remove the other mat and put the unit with feet right on the concrete floor so that the extra feet height cancels out the plywood base height of the hitting mat ?? That way the bottom surace of the metal box would be the same exact hight as the top surface of the hitting mat.

[Rogala]

A rouge 7 iron has the same loft (27 degrees) as a lot of 6 irons. This decrease in loft is what has raised the smash factor. Flex face is a design method to increase distance on off center hits.

Manufactures know the three things that sell golf equipment are distance, distance and distance. They have decreased lofts over the years to the point that most people have the same problems hitting a 4 iron as they used to have hitting a 2 iron. To solve this self induced "problem" they sell you a hybrid which in round numbers is about twice the price of an iron.

Of course, and I would agree with all your thoughts....although the launch monitor I was using in that particular session actually had one input the club loft data for each club as part of its set up. In the case of the Rogues, I entered the lofts right off the Callaway spec chart and it spit out smash factor numbers based on the data.

That being said, I am (sadly) aware that equipment companies today are doubling down on the same vanishing-loft game that almost every big club manufacturer has played since the 1980s....labelling a 5 iron as their 6 iron or even a 7 iron. ;-)

In my very limited experience with juiced up clubs like the Rogue, I can say that I find them waaaay too hot for my tastes. My play set irons are set up (PW to 5-iron) at 46, 42, 38, 34, 30, 26 in terms of the loft...so 2 degrees strong versus classical numbers.

[Rogala]

To be fair, though, this is the opposite of those threads. Your #2 reason could explain his experience, but 1 and 3 would not.

Fhacker,

Looks like someone else made the same point I did above....so what are the potential "setup issues" in your experience ?? That's what I am looking for.... What can inflate predicted carry and total yardage so much when club speed (predicted) and ball speed (actually measured) seem to be about correct...(other than the RPM issue I noticed) ??

Thanks for your patience with a poor SkyTrak newbie like me.

[Rogala]

There have been so many of these threads over the years about skytrak inaccuracies that it’s laughable. Not going to waste my time or others linking same. Use the search function. I will guess 95+% of these turn out to me one of the below issues and not a skytrak problem:

1) indoor swing syndrome
2) skytrak setup issues
3) inflated on course carry/total distances

not saying skytrak is infallible but after having it for 3 years and having much experience with it, it’s probably the best low cost launch monitor still.

So what are the "setup issues" to which you refer ?? Help me out. I was on the phone with SkyTrak for an 1/2 hour today and they were stumped too. They asked me to call back on Monday and talk to a super-tech.

The issue is that the SkyTrak carry numbers are OVER inflated versus the Skytrak clubhead and ball speed numbers...not any purported IRL numbers. The (seemingly) lowball RPM numbers look to me like a clue of some sort (maybe)...which is why I mentioned them

What "setup issue" can cause that in your experience ?? I could not find a thread on that issue.

Thanks for your patience with a poor SkyTrak newbie like me

P.S. BTW, your points #1 and #3 points suggest to me that my original post was not clear...as the SkyTrak carry and total distance numbers are looking inflated...not shorter than IRL....and "yes" I knew it was a camera based system before I bought it...meant to write "combo based" system in the earlier post (and have corrected it for clarity)....as in radar + camera. I already own a doppler radar based unit, and I bought this to be able to have dual measurements to compare and contrast.

[Fhacker]

He is saying the skytrak is inaccurate. I am saying it is generally not. And yes could be #2 like I said, no friggin idea. And where is he getting his figures from. He didn’t even know skytrak is a camera based system. Ha typical

[3on3putt]

You say "skytrak can never be as accurate as a camera based system." Skytrak IS a camera based system. ??

[Bubba22]

I agree with wbond. SkyTrak is a camera based unit and only measures ball data. Setup is key. The unit is very accurate. The mat will also make a difference.

[wbond]

Skytrak does not measure any club data so it’s best to ignore it. Also, skytrak is a camera based system and its quite accurate. Make absolutely certain your clubs are clean, it will affect spin. Use a premium ball and have the logo facing the unit. Make certain the bottom of the skytrak is at the same height as your hitting surface. This should help with your spin.

[Ronsc1985]

When I use a modern hot face iron though (Callway Rogue for example) my 7i smash factor jumps up to 1.39 - 1.40. I get the same sort of numbers with hot faced 6-irons and 5-irons...1.40 - 1.42.

Go figure...those flexible faces actually WORK...and then some.

A rouge 7 iron has the same loft (27 degrees) as a lot of 6 irons. This decrease in loft is what has raised the smash factor. Flex face is a design method to increase distance on off center hits.

Manufactures know the three things that sell golf equipment are distance, distance and distance. They have decreased lofts over the years to the point that most people have the same problems hitting a 4 iron as they used to have hitting a 2 iron. To solve this self induced "problem" they sell you a hybrid which in round numbers is about twice the price of an iron.

[RAH5]

There have been so many of these threads over the years about skytrak inaccuracies that it’s laughable. Not going to waste my time or others linking same. Use the search function. I will guess 95+% of these turn out to me one of the below issues and not a skytrak problem:

1) indoor swing syndrome
2) skytrak setup issues
3) inflated on course carry/total distances

not saying skytrak is infallible but after having it for 3 years and having much experience with it, it’s probably the best low cost launch monitor still.

To be fair, though, this is the opposite of those threads. Your #2 reason could explain his experience, but 1 and 3 would not.

[Rogala]

Side note: 76-80 mph club speed with 7-iron will not produce 116-120 mph ball speed. 7-iron smash factor is about 1.35 at most (tour level strike), which is 108 mph ball speed from 80 mph clubhead speed.

When I use a modern hot face iron though (Callway Rogue for example) my 7i smash factor jumps up to 1.39 - 1.40. I get the same sort of numbers with hot faced 6-irons and 5-irons...1.40 - 1.42.

Go figure...those flexible faces actually WORK...and then some.

[Fhacker]

There have been so many of these threads over the years about skytrak inaccuracies that it’s laughable. Not going to waste my time or others linking same. Use the search function. I will guess 95+% of these turn out to me one of the below issues and not a skytrak problem:

1) indoor swing syndrome
2) skytrak setup issues
3) inflated on course carry/total distances

not saying skytrak is infallible but after having it for 3 years and having much experience with it, it’s probably the best low cost launch monitor still.

[RAH5]

Hmmm...now I am starting to get tremendously concerned about the SkyTrak.

Spin numbers are important to me as spin defines trajectory. Of course I knew a SkyTrak can never be as accurate as a camera-based system, but I was hoping it would be more accuratenthan the Sky Caddy. The Sky caddy is off about 200-300 RPM, but it is CONSISTENTLY off...meaning you can rely on simply adding 200-300 RPM on every swing, and the numbers being correct. (Note: I tested the Sky Caddy against both a Trackman and a camera-based system).

I am also worried about how course simulation software is going to deal with this output being so odd unless one can fiddle with the settings in a club-specific way within the sim software.

For reference: IRL, my best, best 7-iron carry with no wind and normal conidtions, is approximately 165 yards (155-160 is more typical). IRL, my best 8-iron carry is approximately 145 yards (135-140 is more typical).

Note: BTW, I am a former 2-3 handicap golfer (was actually scratch forone season) who nowadays plays comfortably off a 6 or 7...now that I have eight-year old twins, and not so much time for golf. Point being, I will claim to having more-repeatable-than-average swing, though not a truly first-class or explosively powerful one...just a little trap draw which I learned in the caddy yard 30 years ago.

Please don’t let my experience worry you too much. I’m a high swing speed, wildly inconsistent ball striker. The Skytrak is helping with that already, but I’m all over the place. I have, though, taken note of the low spin numbers, which seem to be fairly consistent for me.