Clubhead & Ball Speeds Are Correct...but Yardages Are Hugely Inflated...

[Rogala]

I am a new user, using Skytrak on a PC in direct mode.

SkyTrak is reporting my clubhead speed and ball speed for an easy 7-iron at about 76-80 MPH and 116-120 MPH respectively...which seem sort of accurate based on my swing and results IRL.

It is reporting the carry distance, however, at around 176 yards and the overall distance close to 200 yards. It should be 155-165 yards with no wind based on IRL results.

What could be going on ??

My only clue is that the RPM Backspin numbers are ludicrously low....around 2-3K RPM when I know they should be 6-7K RPM based on other simulation and Real Life results.

Has anyone else seen this sort of combined RPM lowballing and yardage inflation ?? How to get SkyTrak to read properly / correct this inflation ??

Thanks !!!

[GungHoGolf]

Fresh, white, premium (urethane cover) ball with logo towards unit? SkyTrak is very good at measuring backspin, as long as logo faces camera.

Hitting off a mat takes some spin off (about 15-20% compared to turf), but you should be getting at least 5.5K spin with that ball speed, with a premium ball.

Make sure you're looking at total spin and spin axis (setting in SkyTrak session settings), so any sidespin component doesn't subtract from the backspin number.

Also make sure you select 7-iron when testing. If SkyTrak cannot measure spin for some reason (no logo in view to key in on), it may guess at the spin based on the club you've selected.

Side note: 76-80 mph club speed with 7-iron will not produce 116-120 mph ball speed. 7-iron smash factor is about 1.35 at most (tour level strike), which is 108 mph ball speed from 80 mph clubhead speed.

[Rogala]

Fresh, white, premium (urethane cover) ball with logo towards unit? SkyTrak is very good at measuring backspin, as long as logo faces camera.

Hitting off a mat takes some spin off (about 15-20% compared to turf), but you should be getting at least 5.5K spin with that ball speed, with a premium ball.

Make sure you're looking at total spin and spin axis (setting in SkyTrak session settings), so any sidespin component doesn't subtract from the backspin number.

Also make sure you select 7-iron when testing. If SkyTrak cannot measure spin for some reason (no logo in view to key in on), it may guess at the spin based on the club you've selected.

Side note: 76-80 mph club speed with 7-iron will not produce 116-120 mph ball speed. 7-iron smash factor is about 1.35 at most (tour level strike), which is 108 mph ball speed from 80 mph clubhead speed.

OK, I didn't have the logo pointing at unit. Will try that. I also chaged the session setting to spin axix, but it only jumped up the total RPM numbers by about 200RPM.

I then reset the unit and tried again (still no logo pointing at unit), This time I got 76 mph and 109 mph for club and ball speed with a 7-iron and an RPM reading of about 4,500. My 8-iron came up as 74 mph and 101 mph club and ball with 5,600 RPMs. So maybe something is still off there.

I tested it with a Swing Caddy unit on the same swings, and those numbers were (IMO) spot on with my real life performance.

Somehow, the Swing Caddy (a $450 unit) is reporting carry and total distance more accurately than SkyTrak is at the moment (at least the way I was using SkyTrak). The Siwng Caddy is radar based and sits 6 feet BEHIND the ball, while the SkyTrak is sitting slghtly in front and alongside the ball.

[RAH5]

I’ve seen this too. Almost the same thing so we must have similar swings. I don’t have the readings in front of me but on a really flush shot I’m carrying up to 185 with a 7-iron.

Using a new ball, logo toward the unit, unit same height as the mat.

Backspin reading is consistently sub-4000.

Fiberbuilt mat, which I’ve read can really depress the spin.

It doesn’t really bother me that much because the shot shape is way more important to me but I have certainly questioned it.

I am guessing I’d carry it farther on unit than on the course. I’m able to really dial in a swing with no consequences. But 185 has to be too far.

[Rogala]

I’ve seen this too. Almost the same thing so we must have similar swings. I don’t have the readings in front of me but on a really flush shot I’m carrying up to 185 with a 7-iron.

Using a new ball, logo toward the unit, unit same height as the mat.

Backspin reading is consistently sub-4000.

Fiberbuilt mat, which I’ve read can really depress the spin.

It doesn’t really bother me that much because the shot shape is way more important to me but I have certainly questioned it.

I am guessing I’d carry it farther on unit than on the course. I’m able to really dial in a swing with no consequences. But 185 has to be too far.

Hmmm...now I am starting to get tremendously concerned about the SkyTrak.

Spin numbers are important to me as spin defines trajectory. Of course I knew a SkyTrak can never be as accurate as a combo-based system, but I was hoping it would be more accuraten than the radar-based Swing Caddie. The Swing Caddie is off about 200-300 RPM, but it is CONSISTENTLY off...meaning you can rely on simply adding 200-300 RPM on every swing, and the numbers being correct. (Note: I tested the Swing Caddie against both a Trackman and a high end camera-based system).

I am also worried about how course simulation software is going to deal with this output being so odd unless one can fiddle with the settings in a club-specific way within the sim software.

For reference: IRL, my best, best 7-iron carry with no wind and normal conidtions, is approximately 165 yards (155-160 is more typical). IRL, my best 8-iron carry is approximately 145 yards (135-140 is more typical).

Note: BTW, I am a former 2-3 handicap golfer (was actually scratch forone season) who nowadays plays comfortably off a 6 or 7...now that I have eight-year old twins, and not so much time for golf. Point being, I will claim to having more-repeatable-than-average swing, though not a truly first-class or explosively powerful one...just a little trap draw which I learned in the caddy yard 30 years ago.

I found some swing data from another camera based system I tried out in February of 2020, and my 7-iron backspin was a bit lower than I recalled...right around 6,300 RPM on average with an 80-82 mph clubhead speed. My 8-iron jumps up to nearly 8,000 RPM with a 76-78 mph clubhead speed.

5-iron clubhead speed is right around 88 with 4,500 RPM (best shots carry right around 185 yards) and 6-iron at 85 mph and 5,300 RPM (best shots carry 175 yards)...so all that spin and clubhead data hangs together, logically. I play a Bridgestone Speed Ball or a Titleist NXT....which are a little hotter than some other balls. Driver carries 225-240 or so on a clubhead spped of 100-104. Note: I was never an explosive hitter. My top driver club head speed (44" club) when I was in my 30s was 107-108.

I will be comparing all this data to SkyTrak over the weekend and will try to post it for reference.

[3on3putt]

You say "skytrak can never be as accurate as a camera based system." Skytrak IS a camera based system. ??

[3on3putt]

225-240 is a bit low for club head speeds of 100-104. One of those estimates is off. You should be carrying at least 245 if your club head speed is over 100.

[Rogala]

3on3putt

You wroite: "You should be carrying at least 245 if your club head speed is over 100."

So I have been told during various clubfitting sessions at places like Cool Clubs and Hot Links in AZ, and also others. I have an ex-caddie swing which was tailored to playing in Texas (where I lived for 17 years) and which is based on a medium, arcing trajectory with a right to left bias.

In irons, it has been called a "trap-draw" by various professionals. With my driver, it is sort of a "going draw" with a lower than normal launch angle off of a 9.5 degree driver. I have experimented with a higher lofted driver which does give me a higher launch angle without modifying my swing, and I did carry these a few yards longer (maybe 5-15 yards? with a 12 degree driver) but then I get near-ero roll....always under 5 yards under normal ground conditions...and I lost yards overall.

In Texas, when averaged over all conditions, I generally drove it around 260-270 with roll and was able to play to my 2-3 handicap very regulalry and even win or finish well in a few local events (city championship, local mid-am events, etc.) and even a few regional events. I now live in the very rainy Pacific Northwest, and with roll over all coniditions, I average under 255.

My comfortable go-no-go distance to carry hazards is 230 yards and has been so since I moved here. As a younger man, I might have felt comfortable trying to clear something 240, but only in favorable wind conditions, or to gain some significant playing advantage.

As I wrote elsewhere, I am not an "explosive power" type golfer and never really sought to play like one. I acutally play much more hickory-shafted golf these days than I do modern golf...and a great drive with a 1920s era hickory brassie (12 degrees loft) goes maybe 225-230 maximum for me with carry and roll out here in the NW....but I find it more enjoyable as the longest downwind driver I ever hit back in Texas. The virtues of hickory are many....but ego building long driving is not really one of them.

[RAH5]

Hmmm...now I am starting to get tremendously concerned about the SkyTrak.

Spin numbers are important to me as spin defines trajectory. Of course I knew a SkyTrak can never be as accurate as a camera-based system, but I was hoping it would be more accuratenthan the Sky Caddy. The Sky caddy is off about 200-300 RPM, but it is CONSISTENTLY off...meaning you can rely on simply adding 200-300 RPM on every swing, and the numbers being correct. (Note: I tested the Sky Caddy against both a Trackman and a camera-based system).

I am also worried about how course simulation software is going to deal with this output being so odd unless one can fiddle with the settings in a club-specific way within the sim software.

For reference: IRL, my best, best 7-iron carry with no wind and normal conidtions, is approximately 165 yards (155-160 is more typical). IRL, my best 8-iron carry is approximately 145 yards (135-140 is more typical).

Note: BTW, I am a former 2-3 handicap golfer (was actually scratch forone season) who nowadays plays comfortably off a 6 or 7...now that I have eight-year old twins, and not so much time for golf. Point being, I will claim to having more-repeatable-than-average swing, though not a truly first-class or explosively powerful one...just a little trap draw which I learned in the caddy yard 30 years ago.

Please don’t let my experience worry you too much. I’m a high swing speed, wildly inconsistent ball striker. The Skytrak is helping with that already, but I’m all over the place. I have, though, taken note of the low spin numbers, which seem to be fairly consistent for me.

[Fhacker]

There have been so many of these threads over the years about skytrak inaccuracies that it’s laughable. Not going to waste my time or others linking same. Use the search function. I will guess 95+% of these turn out to me one of the below issues and not a skytrak problem:

1) indoor swing syndrome
2) skytrak setup issues
3) inflated on course carry/total distances

not saying skytrak is infallible but after having it for 3 years and having much experience with it, it’s probably the best low cost launch monitor still.

[Rogala]

Side note: 76-80 mph club speed with 7-iron will not produce 116-120 mph ball speed. 7-iron smash factor is about 1.35 at most (tour level strike), which is 108 mph ball speed from 80 mph clubhead speed.

When I use a modern hot face iron though (Callway Rogue for example) my 7i smash factor jumps up to 1.39 - 1.40. I get the same sort of numbers with hot faced 6-irons and 5-irons...1.40 - 1.42.

Go figure...those flexible faces actually WORK...and then some.

[RAH5]

There have been so many of these threads over the years about skytrak inaccuracies that it’s laughable. Not going to waste my time or others linking same. Use the search function. I will guess 95+% of these turn out to me one of the below issues and not a skytrak problem:

1) indoor swing syndrome
2) skytrak setup issues
3) inflated on course carry/total distances

not saying skytrak is infallible but after having it for 3 years and having much experience with it, it’s probably the best low cost launch monitor still.

To be fair, though, this is the opposite of those threads. Your #2 reason could explain his experience, but 1 and 3 would not.

[Fhacker]

He is saying the skytrak is inaccurate. I am saying it is generally not. And yes could be #2 like I said, no friggin idea. And where is he getting his figures from. He didn’t even know skytrak is a camera based system. Ha typical

[Ronsc1985]

When I use a modern hot face iron though (Callway Rogue for example) my 7i smash factor jumps up to 1.39 - 1.40. I get the same sort of numbers with hot faced 6-irons and 5-irons...1.40 - 1.42.

Go figure...those flexible faces actually WORK...and then some.

A rouge 7 iron has the same loft (27 degrees) as a lot of 6 irons. This decrease in loft is what has raised the smash factor. Flex face is a design method to increase distance on off center hits.

Manufactures know the three things that sell golf equipment are distance, distance and distance. They have decreased lofts over the years to the point that most people have the same problems hitting a 4 iron as they used to have hitting a 2 iron. To solve this self induced "problem" they sell you a hybrid which in round numbers is about twice the price of an iron.

[wbond]

Skytrak does not measure any club data so it’s best to ignore it. Also, skytrak is a camera based system and its quite accurate. Make absolutely certain your clubs are clean, it will affect spin. Use a premium ball and have the logo facing the unit. Make certain the bottom of the skytrak is at the same height as your hitting surface. This should help with your spin.

[Bubba22]

I agree with wbond. SkyTrak is a camera based unit and only measures ball data. Setup is key. The unit is very accurate. The mat will also make a difference.

[Rogala]

There have been so many of these threads over the years about skytrak inaccuracies that it’s laughable. Not going to waste my time or others linking same. Use the search function. I will guess 95+% of these turn out to me one of the below issues and not a skytrak problem:

1) indoor swing syndrome
2) skytrak setup issues
3) inflated on course carry/total distances

not saying skytrak is infallible but after having it for 3 years and having much experience with it, it’s probably the best low cost launch monitor still.

So what are the "setup issues" to which you refer ?? Help me out. I was on the phone with SkyTrak for an 1/2 hour today and they were stumped too. They asked me to call back on Monday and talk to a super-tech.

The issue is that the SkyTrak carry numbers are OVER inflated versus the Skytrak clubhead and ball speed numbers...not any purported IRL numbers. The (seemingly) lowball RPM numbers look to me like a clue of some sort (maybe)...which is why I mentioned them

What "setup issue" can cause that in your experience ?? I could not find a thread on that issue.

Thanks for your patience with a poor SkyTrak newbie like me

P.S. BTW, your points #1 and #3 points suggest to me that my original post was not clear...as the SkyTrak carry and total distance numbers are looking inflated...not shorter than IRL....and "yes" I knew it was a camera based system before I bought it...meant to write "combo based" system in the earlier post (and have corrected it for clarity)....as in radar + camera. I already own a doppler radar based unit, and I bought this to be able to have dual measurements to compare and contrast.

[Morini]

No, they are not over inflated. It accurately reads your low spin. You would have the exact same result with a Quad or TM4 ... or if you opened your garage door and measured where the ball landed down the street. Hit off a short tee to rule out mat as cause of slow spin.

[Rogala]

To be fair, though, this is the opposite of those threads. Your #2 reason could explain his experience, but 1 and 3 would not.

Fhacker,

Looks like someone else made the same point I did above....so what are the potential "setup issues" in your experience ?? That's what I am looking for.... What can inflate predicted carry and total yardage so much when club speed (predicted) and ball speed (actually measured) seem to be about correct...(other than the RPM issue I noticed) ??

Thanks for your patience with a poor SkyTrak newbie like me.

[Rogala]

A rouge 7 iron has the same loft (27 degrees) as a lot of 6 irons. This decrease in loft is what has raised the smash factor. Flex face is a design method to increase distance on off center hits.

Manufactures know the three things that sell golf equipment are distance, distance and distance. They have decreased lofts over the years to the point that most people have the same problems hitting a 4 iron as they used to have hitting a 2 iron. To solve this self induced "problem" they sell you a hybrid which in round numbers is about twice the price of an iron.

Of course, and I would agree with all your thoughts....although the launch monitor I was using in that particular session actually had one input the club loft data for each club as part of its set up. In the case of the Rogues, I entered the lofts right off the Callaway spec chart and it spit out smash factor numbers based on the data.

That being said, I am (sadly) aware that equipment companies today are doubling down on the same vanishing-loft game that almost every big club manufacturer has played since the 1980s....labelling a 5 iron as their 6 iron or even a 7 iron. ;-)

In my very limited experience with juiced up clubs like the Rogue, I can say that I find them waaaay too hot for my tastes. My play set irons are set up (PW to 5-iron) at 46, 42, 38, 34, 30, 26 in terms of the loft...so 2 degrees strong versus classical numbers.