My initial testing, pros, cons and what needs changing/ adding in the software

**Bubba22** · 07-07-2015, 10:52 PM

No doubt the Skytrak is accurate. They do need to continue improving the range app and add other decices like pc and android. Why it's taking so long is unknown. Be patient though. In my opinion the only shot that is realistic to real golf for any indoor simulation/launch monitor is the teed shots. Fairway, rough, sand, putting is not what you see in real golf. There is absolutely no mat that will 100% mimic real golf. I personally hate hitting off mats on real ranges. At home however, what is the alternative? Especially when there is 5 feet of snow outside for some of us. It's certainly better than nothing.

As far as sim software goes, it's just an option. Some folks just want a range for practice. Preferably one that can give club stats, averages etc. Most sim software will have this feature. Chipping, putting, rough, sand shots etc. can never mimic real golf. I have been saying this for years. The process of playing is really more for fun but does allow for practice. It's not for everyone but those that do play in general love it, especially live, real time online play. If you have never done it then you wont know.

Skytrak are testing TGC, E6 and Perfect golf. The testing is going well but they have not hinted when it will be available. They are very close in my opinion. I hope they will be updating the range app soon with the great suggestions by all the forum folks. My advice is to hang in there as good things will hopefully come sooner rather than later.

**jonjay** · 07-08-2015, 07:30 PM

As a potential customer to purchasing a launch monitor, reading people comments is putting me off SkyTrak. I think I'd rather spend the extra ££ and have good customer support and peace of mind.

**Bubba22** · 07-08-2015, 10:55 PM

RC not sure what the cost of E6 will be. There was talk about a monthly fee via E6 cloud service but nothing has been decided.

Jonjay I hear you. They need some improvement in customer service and really marketing and product launching and improvement. Ther is no doubt it's a great product ths will only get better. If you already are questioning it based on the comments here then you should buy a GC2 or Flightscope. Those that are patient and willing to wait and partially rely on the forum for advice will certainly save a lot of money and eventually be rewarded as the improvements, softwares etc come.

**DeaconBlooze** · 07-11-2015, 07:18 PM

I check this site constantly, mostly looking for any sort of update on a sim release. I just don't have 2-4 hours available during dayling where I can get away to get in a round of golf. I'm an avid golfer that doesn't get time to play; that's just how my life works. I bought this unit to get range sessions in my garage, but mostly, I bought it so I could play a round of golf in my garage at any time (I usually don't get much time before 8pm). I don't share the same "as long as it's out before winter" sentiment as most people. I've grown a little tired of the stale range sessions, but still use the unit for this just about every night. I'm desperate for some sort of sim. I don't think that it's going to replicate the feel of an actual round, but I would at least get a reasonable amount of utility when compared to an actual round.

Here are my riffs on the types of software we're expecting to be available (eventually):

WGT - Hopefully, this will be offered as a free service, or included in the ambiguous $99 yearly fee we're seeing. As many have pointed out, it's not the best, since it's just a photo based sim. I don't really care, as long as it interacts well with the Skytrak. This may hold my interest long enough to put aside some dough for a better sim option.

E6 - I like the idea of the monthly pricing. The cost per month is just about the price of a round of golf around my parts. So, considering I can only get out on the occasional weekend these days, this cost is not prohibitive to me. I read a few things on time limits which would be concerning. While I like the idea of TGC, E6 offers a pretty quick startup with some known courses. It seems like pretty solid software, and I would consider "renting" this as long as I have fun with it, or until I decided to move onto TGC.

TGC - There are so many people that love this software. I think it looks great, and the course building is pretty exciting. I have a gaming computer, but that's currently dedicated to a racing simulator I have setup. If this came out, I'd probably be lugging the computer from the basement to outside, and back, as needed. The cost is also a concern. I looked into getting a GC2 for a little while, but by the time I got the unit and course software, the cost was just too much to justify. I don't know how much of that software cost will follow TGC to the Skytrak, but I have a feeling it's not going to be a low number. I really hope they can keep it around the $200 mark or so. If they can, I'll be a day one purchase on that. If the cost is considerably higher, I'll evaluate the other two options first

Basically, I'll take ANYTHING at this point, I just want to play! The worst case for me would be a release of TGC before the others, with a substantial price. I'd be really tempted to buy in, just because I'm super-impatient. My hope is that there will be an economical choice released at the same time, or before TGC. I'm very anxious for some sort of software to get released soon!

**davray666** · 07-12-2015, 01:37 AM

I think it's clear that ST is not very good at developing software and managing customer support. So here's a crazy idea.
ST focuses on the hardware and releases a PC and iOS SDK that allows independent software developers to connect to the unit and get the data in to their program.
There are a lot of programmers out there that could join forces and create the best possible driving range including saving stats and all kind of functions you could imagine.
I am a SW developer among other things and it's not that hard to add the trivial things people have been asking for here.
Over time ST (or should I say Rapsodo) could drop the iOS app and focus on hardware and putting apps for iOS or whatever else they are interested in.
A clear win/win. Problem here is that the ST people have a plan to get annual fees for the totally useless Skygolf data sync service and possible added services in the future.
The only way they can do that is if they prevent others to connect to the unit and collect the data it produces.

**doublebogey** · 07-12-2015, 02:27 AM

davray666 is right on regarding U.S. SkyTrak SkyGolf's inability to develop good software and provide customer support.

SkyTrak Japan developed by Xswing Golf is so much more advanced it's crazy:
- iPad app that works with newly designed range background
- already has fully functioning PC simulator with course play
- provides various device protectors and leveling tools
- with full local support in Korea, China and Hong Kong already
- and all at roughly same price but in Japanese Yen and in their local currencies in the above-mentioned countries

I called them and they said they are much more advanced because they launched the SkyTrak product earlier than their U.S. counterpart SkyGolf. I lived in Hong Kong but happened to be in the States so bought my SkyTrak there. Now I really regret it as I should have just bought directly from Japan (they will ship to Hong Kong for very nominal shipping charge via EMS) or thru their partner in Hong Kong. I have recommended Xswing Golf's SkyTrak Japan to friends who have bought - they love it, zero software issues and full local customer support.

I don't know if there is contractual agreement between Xswing Golf, SkyGolf and the actual developer of the SkyTrak unit (Rapsodo Pte Ltd - which is a Singapore company) that Xswing Golf is not allowed to market their product in U.S. or Europe? If there are no restrictions, I don't see SkyGolf surviving against Xswing Golf.

Below is link to SkyTrak Japan and Xswing Golf's website (though in Japanese if you just open using Google Chrome and hit translate on top you will get site translated into English):

http://www.sky-trak.com/product_list.html

http://xswinggolf.com/skytrak.html

Message to SkyGolf: Get your act together in regards to all the software bugs in your basically beta version of app ASAP, completely overhaul your customer support and get a sim solution (+ PC and Android solutions) out ASAP or else I don't see your version of SkyTrak surviving. You are basically right now only holding U.S. customers in this discussion forum hostage because they have no alternative US$2,000 launch monitor solution - but that's only until Xswing Golf's SkyTrak goes global.

**luv2golf** · 07-12-2015, 04:06 AM

That's crazy, didn't know there was an XSWING SKY. How can they be so far ahead of skygolf?

Might be a good idea to start a new thread with your post doublebogey. Get these guys moving on some changes.

**Brettster** · 07-12-2015, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by davray666 View Post

There are a lot of programmers out there that could join forces and create the best possible driving range including saving stats and all kind of functions you could imagine. A clear win/win. Problem here is that the ST people have a plan to get annual fees for the totally useless Skygolf data sync service and possible added services in the future.
The only way they can do that is if they prevent others to connect to the unit and collect the data it produces.

Yes Davray that's the rub (it's their data they want to make valuable, which is ok, if they make it nearly perfect)! I'm also a software developer/programmer (software engineer), and have been for nearly 30 years. I've griped many times on the SkyTrak threads about 'why is it taking you so long' - but you can see, there is never any reply from the people at SkyTrak. This has me concerned, because if they at least had an idea of what was going on, they would post about it, so this tells me that they don't. And that is really bad news for everyone waiting for them to produce something that may never come!

Have a look at their SkyTrak GolfTracker, apparently they tried to launch that back in 2011, and now it's finally being sold! That's 4 years, and wayyyyy tooo slowww to expect users to wait around to find a piece of technology that is now also offered by Game Golf and Arccos Golf, so maybe that's what got their butts in gear, I don't know. They're quite silent up here, unless they're claiming that they are working on things, or that fixes are coming... you never really see actual dates (just date ranges that are flexible), and I'll be surprised on if even the date ranges on releases can be met.

I get the feeling there are marketing guys from ST posting up here, that just don't have the technological background to get real 'valid' answers from the technical people on the work that is progressing. How about it Sky Golf, any real hard dates and answers on releases for any of this stuff? Why not have a techie from ST post on here, someone that is in the trenches with the code, or are they all over in Singapore?

**Brettster** · 07-12-2015, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by doublebogey View Post

davray666 is right on regarding U.S. SkyTrak SkyGolf's inability to develop good software and provide customer support.

Message to SkyGolf: Get your act together in regards to all the software bugs in your basically beta version of app ASAP, completely overhaul your customer support and get a sim solution (+ PC and Android solutions) out ASAP or else I don't see your version of SkyTrak surviving. You are basically right now only holding U.S. customers in this discussion forum hostage because they have no alternative US$2,000 launch monitor solution - but that's only until Xswing Golf's SkyTrak goes global.

Hey Doublebogey, you're right too... as well as DavRay. SkyGolf support seems to be poor, or with less technical oriented people. This is ok, as long as they realize that, and they are working on improving it over time. It's often hard to get support working correctly with such a technically oriented product.

Finally, on the last bit, it does feel a bit like they are holding others up here in the forums hostage... I wish SkyGolf could find a tech person to post up here, someone that would know what the real milestones and timelines are for the projects that could indicate how things are going... That would be very useful.

How about it SkyGolf?

**aja** · 07-12-2015, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Brettster View Post

Hey Doublebogey, you're right too... as well as DavRay. SkyGolf support seems to be poor, or with less technical oriented people. This is ok, as long as they realize that, and they are working on improving it over time. It's often hard to get support working correctly with such a technically oriented product.

Finally, on the last bit, it does feel a bit like they are holding others up here in the forums hostage... I wish SkyGolf could find a tech person to post up here, someone that would know what the real milestones and timelines are for the projects that could indicate how things are going... That would be very useful.

How about it SkyGolf?

Hmmm, Brettster - wouldn't agree with your statement that "It's often hard to get support working correctly with such a technically oriented product."

Firstly, these days, I certainly wouldn't claim that Skytrak was a very technically oriented product from a user standpoint. Connecting to a WiFi is certainly "old hat" these days, and the actual set-up of the unit is trivial. What goes on inside the box may be technical but you don't need to know that as a user.

Problem seems to be, either by design, or through incompetence, "support" has not been equipped with the tools to do their job. Instruction, manuals, training, it ain't "rocket science" to set up a support function. However, if you don't understand the importance of support to product acceptance and success, management doesn't provide the necessary tools or emphasis to provide "real" support.

Case in point, don't know how many times its been mentioned on this forum, nobody to date has been able to explain the mystical $99 subscription fee. SkyTrak certainly hasn't found it worth their while to set the record straight. Seems like it's just "easy money" to rake in from over-enthusiastic customers.

**Brettster** · 07-12-2015, 06:50 PM

Yes Aja, it's not rocket science, but I think we can see if they are planning on improving - and what has that record been so far? I hope they can find a way to get the right tools to the support staff, and to get them trained on providing support.

It's sad to see IMO, because they have a huge stable of products, but I'd like to know more about the technical aspects, for example, with their GolfTracker product they say that they are 9 times more accurate then a cell phone, I'd like to know where that comes from? And, they say that they have foot-walked 35,000 courses for measurements - I'd like to see examples of where that's valuable as you can easily pick up anything you want from all of the satellite images available.... Now, if they could tell me where this would come into play, and the accuracy would help me, and if I knew that some of their products worked WITHOUT me having to have my phone on for the entire round, I would be all ears, but nothing yet... even their website does not seem to provide detailed information and answers to some questions. I see what they are offering, but then again, does the subscription have to be paid for to use the products year-after-year, or it a once-off purchase?

Hopefully someone from SkyGolf can chime here and answer these questions, and let us know that they are working on improving their customer support.

**driverdivots** · 07-12-2015, 09:09 PM

Spot on HTTR, spot on.
I am one of the ones that returned my unit within the 30 day window since I was having hardware issues (although customer service tried so hard to tell me nothing was wrong). I still come to these forums periodically to see what has been added/released before I pull the trigger on another unit, and so far I have been very disappointed. Seems like nothing has changed since I returned my unit back in April. One big thing I was waiting on is the leveling stand/shield. I understand people have been making their own, but it amazes me the company does not have something ready to sell.

**davray666** · 07-13-2015, 10:36 AM

I have a different opinion on the enclosure story. It's simply bad design to start with. Why would you design a product for a specific use that needs a protection to start with.
(Please don't bring up the iPhone as a comparison. The ST is not a fashion accessory)
It's not only about the protection from being hit with a ball since that can't be done anyway because you can't cover the sensors. Meaning that the opening needs to be bigger than a golf ball.
The other issue is that the IR filter (the black plastic covering the sensors) is so soft and sensitive that there is no way you can carry it in the golf bag as is without scratching the plastic.
You can't even wipe down the plastic from dust with a soft cloth without scratching it. A few micro scratches will not affect performance but who knows how many times you can wipe it before it becomes a problem. There is no way to protect it against dust. The process of hitting on a plastic artificial turf with a golf club creates a massive amount of statically charged dust particles that will be drawn to the unit. The acrylic front of my enclosure picks up the majority of that dust, so that is another reason why you might consider having something in front of the ST unit.

**SkyTrak_Seth** · 07-17-2015, 03:42 PM

Great write up! A little bird (coincidentally named Seth too) said there may be an app waiting for approval with Apple for the store that addresses almost all of your cons

Sorry I've been missing as of late. I've been working non-stop on this and a few other things in the pipeline. That means over weekend and holidays, so I've been completely under water. If you all can hang in there, a TON of new stuff to come soon.

**Ironstrokes** · 07-17-2015, 06:16 PM

That's awesome! We've been missing you around here, great to hear things are coming up soon and you guys are working hard, can't wait!

My initial testing, pros, cons and what needs changing/ adding in the software

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