Software for live swing analysis?

[BMan]

I'd like to add a camera set-up to do live video analysis indoors in my hitting bay.

I have a newish laptop with a good graphics card, and I plan to add a USB 3.0 camera.

Just not sure about the camera specifics or which software to use. I don't want to buy $500+ professional software for coaches, that would just be overkill. But I'm not sure what other options are out there.

I'd love to hear from someone who's actually done this.

[GmanJeff]

I use the V1 Golf app on my iPhone and iPad, and find it to be useful. They also make it as software in both basic and premium versions, with basic appearing to be free. My suggestion would be to get a high-speed camera. When I use my iPad and iPhone, which are a couple of generations old, the video I capture has some blur, due to the frame capture speed (60 fps max). I can see my body positions well enough, but the clubhead and the shaft become blurry. A quality external video camera which can capture at least 120, and preferably 240, frames per second with good resolution would likely eliminate that problem.

[BMan]

It looks like V1 has a consumer version that lets you connect one live camera, but they want you to use the IDS cameras they sell. Not sure if that can be worked around.

[Point280]

Hey Bman. I've been looking into this also. Here are a couple of companies to look at:

http://cswing.com/

http://www.allsportsystems.com/video-analysis-software-leadin.php

cSwing is pretty affordable. Seems feature-rich, but requires older FireWire DV camcorders for real-time video. Many options to quickly add video captured on other devices / cameras, however. They make recommendations on the Equipment page. Single camera and multiple camera pricing. Decent value in my opinion.

MotionView looks pretty good, too. Two different levels of software. More expensive than cSwing, but less expensive than a lot of the others currently out there. They also sell high speed / high frame rate cameras with many different connection options (GIGE, USB 3.0, USB 2.0). They have a "wifi grabber" software that connects to your smartphone or GoPro, and pulls your swing videos off the device, then auto-drops them into the desktop software for analysis. They consider this "near real-time" or something like that.

Both offer free downloads for a trial period.

I'm sorta concerned with the process of recording on an separate camera, then transferring the video to the PC for analysis within the software. As long as the process is relatively quick, via wifi, I think I could live with it. The best case would be to obviously have at least two fixed GIGE, or USB 3.0 cams set up in front and down-the-line for instant review... but that can get a little pricey. I think I'm gonna wait for the reviews of the Nikon DL 18-50mm, once it's released. Pricey, but more versatile in terms of mobility and other uses (non-golf related). It's release has been delayed indefinitely though.

[kevin1889]

Bman,
If you are trying to do this on a small budget, here's what I did...

Purchased a PS3 Eye Camera from Gamestop for about $10. There is some additional drivers that you'll need to install in order for the PS3 Eye to work on a PC. I'll try to dig up some of the old forum threads that provided instructions, but it was pretty easy once I found the driver. (try the link belowto start with).

Downloaded Kinovea software. I like the Kinovea software because it seems to have more flexibility than the free version of V1. You can set up a 5 second delay, which is nice so that I can swing look at my monitor and then see it happening. I also like that I can draw lines over the streaming video, so I don't have to record every time and then pull up the recorded video. It's nice to be able to stream live, apply the delay and look up at my swing and see if I'm hitting the positions. If I need to break it down into slow-motion then I'll record and go back and analyze. Note: You can use the PS3 Eye on V1, I just liked the video delay feature of Kinovea better.

The PS3 Eye isn't the best quality but I can see everything I need in my swing from down the line. I've got the fps at 80 right now, and that also works fine for me to playback in slow motion and see what I need to see. It's been a great budget solution. If this is what you are looking for, feel free to message me and I can try and put together more details and/or a couple screenshots to see quality.

[aja]

Swinguru works and sets up with no issues except you have to invest in a Kinect sensor and adapter for use with a PC. They have a website that covers the requirements.

It also automatically captures your swing and plays back right away. I tried the V1 approach with separate video camera but for me it seemed pretty useless as it wasn't a "real time" soulution - ie. you tape your shots on the camera and then later, off-line, look at the video. Ends up pretty disjointed with the time spent hitting not really correlating right away with the video analysis.

Limitation is it's the face on view - there is no down the line possibilty.

[BMan]

I'd like something that I can watch back instantly. Something like a coach would use in a lesson, I suppose.

I don't mind spending the money for the USB camera, I was just hoping there was a reasonably priced option for software.

[frankiepap39]

i am in the same boat... would like to see it on playback. but i would like 2 cameras... the back and side to see everything

[BMan]

I would, but unfortunately I think I only have room for one camera.

I'm just curious to see an actual setup like this and to hear some specifics.

[BMan]

Swinguru works and sets up with no issues except you have to invest in a Kinect sensor and adapter for use with a PC. They have a website that covers the requirements.

It also automatically captures your swing and plays back right away. I tried the V1 approach with separate video camera but for me it seemed pretty useless as it wasn't a "real time" soulution - ie. you tape your shots on the camera and then later, off-line, look at the video.

I'm not familiar with Swinguru, but I'll take a look at that

And I think V1 does have a home version that you can use with a live camera, but they push the IDS cameras that they sell. If it worked with other USB cameras, I think that might be an ideal way to go.

[Point280]

Just got an email from Swinguru. They've added high speed 2D to their "Pro" version. They bundle it with an IDS camera and lens. The price is $1215 for a one year subscription. I'm more than likely going this route. The cool part is you get the camera to keep, at about 1/2 the price you'd pay buying it separately (the 1 yr sub is $899 alone). I can always opt of their subscription model and use the camera later by purchasing MotionView, or something else. I'm not sure how accurate the software is; maybe someone else can chime in on that. I love that I can use the pro version with my GC2 and Boditrak, as well as a 3D and now high speed 2D camera. Pretty cool solution if it's precise. Ton of info provided, down to degrees and inches of every part of the swing.

I should add there is an option to purchase the software outright, but it's pricey.

[CBearsSB]

I have motion view and camera from all sports. Great software and camera. Much better than V1 golf. Need atelast 120 fps to see club throughout swing. V1 golf good for phone on course.

[Point280]

Hey CB. So on the MotionView, with their 120 fps camera (looks like the least expensive) you can see the shaft? How about any bending or distortion? And is it indoor capable without a ton of lighting? This would be in my garage. I realize I'll prob need to add some additional lighting depending on the camera.

[Wormiez]

I've found that most generic off the shelf USB cameras output a poor quality when displaying slow-motion swings. A generic USB camera will limit you on the FPS.

If your looking for high quality USB camera, look at Allied Vision Guppy Pro cameras, they can output 120 FPS.

Software V1 is great but out-dated, I'll consider swing catalyst. Swing Catalyst is easy, intuitive and can handle 4 cameras easy.

If you have an Ipad or Iphone, a low cost option is the SwingProfile app

[BMan]

I have a Point Grey Chameleon and lens on the way. I'll be sure and post a review here. It was ~$400 with the lens, and I spent $35 or so for a USB 3.0 cable and tripod adapter.

[onehandicap]

I have been trying both SwingCatalyst and V1 Pro HD. The V1 user interface is really outdated and from my experience doesn't render video in low light anywhere near as well as SwingCatalyst. SC is about $10 more per month than V1 Pro HD for a two camera setup.

I use IDS cameras...UI-3250LE-HQ-C. They are about $550 each. I use Computar 4-8mm varifocal lenses. Been luckily to find them for $39 on eBay.

The other comment I would make is that SwingCatalyst support is much more helpful than V1. Keep in mind I am a subscriber to each and so have full technical support available, V1 couldn't answer my questions regarding video rendering because my model isn't one they support. I asked for a list of cameras they support and they said they didn't have a list and referred me to the cameras on their site. A couple of their cameras are IDS, so I asked what model they were and the tech support guy wouldn't tell me because they want to sell the cameras. But I already have the cameras...I can exchange them, but not return for refund because they are used.

Short sided on their part, they will lose my $60/month subscriber fee...almost all pure profit given their marginal cost is near 0. Even though I love the SwingCatalyst interface, I probably would have had went with V1 due to their Boditrak integration. But give their unwillingness to help, I will just run BodiTrak SHIFT on a separate monitor now and stick with SwingCatalyst.

[BMan]

What does the swingcatalyst software cost?

[onehandicap]

$70/month. I am also just starting to look at a system called GASP 5. Looks amazing, I haven't spent much time with it yet and don't know the cost...I will pass along more info as soon as I have it.