Mats and simulated rough and how they affect launch monitors

[Brettster]

Tonysmjc said:
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I took some of the sand simulation Matt’s from fiberbuilt
and cut holes deep into the fibers so the ball sits down anywhere from 1/2 a ball to an entire ball
its not perfect but it is a simulation of rough

Interesting on the 'sand simulation', what I wonder is how the various launch monitors are able to read a shot from that 'sand analogue' you describe? I see you have Uneekor QED, have you, or anyone else up here, tried something similar on: 1.) ProTee, or 2.) Mevo+?

I'm hoping to simulate as much penalty as possible (to better approximate IRL) for rough (so both light/heavy and around greens as well as next to fairways), and for sand shots (both short and long sand shots) - I want to be able to practice ALL of these from various distances so that when I transfer to real golf every spring I'm not in shock from hitting off a PERFECT LIE of a mat in the simulator for every shot.

Leads me to another question, you have to find a way to fit all these different types of mats (rough/sand/tight lie/tee available) into a certain area (hitting area that can be read by your corresponding launch monitor - since I've heard up here Uneekor gives you a good 18" to 24" to do that in, I wonder how the Mevo+ may fit in this regard - is there some play beyond the 6" - 8" I seem to see up here, or will I have to deal with 'switchable mats' (probably of the DROP IN variety) to do this with a Mevo+?

Thanks,
-Brett

[Tonysmjc]

I can fit a few surfaces into the uneekor zone but it takes some planing and cutting to get them to fit into the zone
but it can be done

I only have a skytrack and uneekor so the other units I can’t comment on

the smaller your willing to make each different surface the more surfaces you can fit into a zone without swapping them out

fiberbuit makes a 1 x 3 foot strip that will accept 1x1 blocks of different turfs
if that helps

[mikestuewe]

The sim software should already be influencing the simulated flight of your ball based on conditions. So if you are hitting out of a bunker on the sim and using turf that mimics sand, you are penalizing yourself twice.

[Brettster]

Hey mikestuewe , I know what you're saying. I think at that point it would be time to compare how much penalty there is from 1.) perfect lie (without hitting from turf/sand) - such as your standard mat, and 2.) hitting from turf that mimics sand (BOTH with, and without the penalty turned on in the software.

As really, it's not about getting the right distance from the shot, but also about the feel from hitting from this different turf/sand mimic and being able to practice/hit off of that type of lie will have a big effect on how your clubface reacts when hitting the ball, and how it feels hitting the ball from the deep stuff, making it that much harder. Maybe having a double penalty is really what it should be anyway, or maybe turning penalties (in distance) off in traps/rough and just hitting from the simulated rough/sand is enough. I'll have to test it. Has anyone done that already?

[Tonysmjc]

I know for me it’s not about how the software treats it

its more about the felling of the shot and the actual ball flight and spin characteristics in a practice setting
just like having an adjustable stance Matt to simulate up hill and down hill lies

sometimes we all forget that
Lms and sims in general are used for a data gathering and as true to life practice as can be obtained as much or more than
simulated golf rounds and completion

[Brettster]

Tonysmjc - yes that's right, and how I feel... regarding the 'adjustable stance Mat to simulate up/down hill lies', do you have one? The only company I've seen that even mentions it is GolfZon, but I'm still looking for one I could purchase separately?

[Tonysmjc]

I’ve done some search’s
There are a few out there

I’d get one but I don’t have the height to play with

I actually looked for and found some tiny hydraulic rams
That would work great under 5x5 aluminum frame

Pretty easy to build one if you have the space

[Brettster]

Cool Tonysmjc do you have a link for those hydraulic rams? The only issue I would see, you would have to manually make adjustments based on how the lie looks on the screen, and with the GolfZon unit, it does that for you - all for a mere $40,000

[Jwheels9876]

Ok here is a little test I did with this mat.... 3 different surfaces all just easy 8 iron swings to see what the numbers looked like... as you can see the rough portion actually does effect ball data to the tune of a few mph ball speed and spin wise as well. Nothing crazy, just about 10 shots on each surface as a warmup before I played a few rounds.

I played about 3 rounds on E6 connect demo with terrain penalties set to off and put myself in the fairway when warranted and same with the thick rough. I didn't use the tee turf portion in game because they don't separate light rough/first cut from heavy rough in E6, it just says rough on screen..

my wrists were hurting after 3 rounds of hitting from that rough, it has very thin fibers that stand up tall so you hit down into the hard rubber base alot.. it feels like you're hitting through the thickest rough on the course... it's tough to hit it clean all the time...

[Brettster]

Thanks Jwheels9876 - I'm still not sure which surface you are calling rough in the pic of the mat? Is it the middle? So, a difference of 4 yards with an 8 iron, that's not a lot, and how much different would it be if you turned Terrain Penalties ON in E6? Just curious.

Also, I'm not sure what those mats are, is that all one mat, or 3 separate mats that you glued together? Where did you purchase? It seems that those mats would not be an option if they hurt your wrist that much? So, you're saying that you normally play with one mat type for the entire round, is it a FiberBuilt, or TrueStrike? Have you ever tried the divot action springing mat?

[Jwheels9876]

I have tried basically every mat but truestrike.
The middle mat is the tall rough..
All 3 surfaces came as a one piece mat for 39 bucks on Amazon.. I wouldn't use it too often, the pieces of grass on top were all over the room after 3 rounds. It would probably be unusable after 30 rounds ..

I just wanted to see if it made any difference and it did a little bit at least.
I've played on the All turf mat mostly over the years, it's thick and punishing but I never really had any issues until I came back from my last foot surgery and my neck and shoulder started bothering me but I hadnt played in weeks and I was hitting everything fat when I started swinging again.. last few days had no issues with it at all.. if there's a mat out there you're looking at I've probably tried it at this point

[Brettster]

Nice Jwheels9876 - I'm finally getting a LM I can setup in limited space that seems to be fairly accurate (Garmin R10), so I'll be able to get setup and test some of these myself soon... Is that 3 surface mat the only one you've seen for sale on Amazon, or are there others that may be more durable, or will I have to make my own?

[drscho]

I use that tri mat for chipping. Going against the grain on the middle section does give you more resistance, especially if you step on your ball. You are right that it probably wouldn’t last to long taking full swings. The highest section on the right will take a tee.

[Brettster]

Jwheels9876 Wheels, have you ever hit off of any from PurchaseGreen? Find them at: https://shop.purchasegreen.com/artif...s-samples.html

I ordered their samples about a month ago and have 6 of them in the basement, they are quite small, 12" x 10" but they at least give you an idea of how it feels to hit off of that surface. I've yet to give them a full swing test, but they look/feel like real grass, even having woven in dead grass strands. I was thinking of using a few of these for my rough (light, and heavy), and possibly their putting green for the rest of the room (I have 12'x15').

[Jwheels9876]

I have not but 12x10 is quite a generous sample size. You could basically just hit from that.... I would worry that those are not made to withstand the pounding of a golf club and will fall apart quite quickly. Definitely attach some sort of foam backing as well for your own safety. They have some real nice grasses for sure, I tried adding the 6 samples but its giving me an error for some reason. The T line look pretty nice..

[Brettster]

Jwheels9876 , I measured them, they are 12 inch x 12 inch. 12 inches square. You think that is generous enough to hit from? I'm not sure, but I would like to attach some foam to the backs and try hitting a few, just to see if this stuff holds up to a club...

I also took some pictures, finally, here's what I have... the one on the left is the thickest, it comes at 2.2" of height, I think, but you can bury the ball in it, and looks like thick enough rough to almost cover the ball.



Next up, I will hit a few balls off of this, with wedges likely, as it will be 60 degrees here on Sunday...

What kind of foam backing should I consider purchasing?

Thanks,
-Brett

[Jwheels9876]

wow those are nice! 12x12 is the same size as a fiberbuilt panel, that is pretty big to hit from. think about it,most launch monitors don't even have a 12" hitting zone. if you sunk them into a stance mat or the floor they would be plenty big.

check out the cosplay eva foam from joann fabric or amazon. they have 10mm,5mm 2mm etc....its sturdy for backing and gives some cushion

[Brettster]

Thanks Jwheels9876 - I will have a look at Joann fabric this weekend, and hit some shots off the mats. I don't think they will degrade easily, they are actually made for outdoor lawn replacement in hot climates especially (CA, NV, AZ for example), I think the warranty is outrageous on the turf too, I will double check that and let you know what I find.

[stunted]

Jwheels9876 , I measured them, they are 12 inch x 12 inch. 12 inches square. You think that is generous enough to hit from? I'm not sure, but I would like to attach some foam to the backs and try hitting a few, just to see if this stuff holds up to a club...

I also took some pictures, finally, here's what I have... the one on the left is the thickest, it comes at 2.2" of height, I think, but you can bury the ball in it, and looks like thick enough rough to almost cover the ball.



Next up, I will hit a few balls off of this, with wedges likely, as it will be 60 degrees here on Sunday...

What kind of foam backing should I consider purchasing?

Thanks,
-Brett

How did it end up holding up?

[Brettster]

stunted

How did it end up holding up?

Very good indeed... I took one of the samples out and hit some wedges, chips and full swings - which sent the turf flying... This seems to be extremely well made, and made for handling a lot of play on the surface. I would recommend. I'm considering using a slice of this off to the side for when I'm hitting out of rough, to make sure I have the right feel of the club at impact through the 'heavy salad'

You can order demos of these slices fairly inexpensively - give it a shot, let me know how it holds up for you?

[stunted]

stunted



Very good indeed... I took one of the samples out and hit some wedges, chips and full swings - which sent the turf flying... This seems to be extremely well made, and made for handling a lot of play on the surface. I would recommend. I'm considering using a slice of this off to the side for when I'm hitting out of rough, to make sure I have the right feel of the club at impact through the 'heavy salad'

You can order demos of these slices fairly inexpensively - give it a shot, let me know how it holds up for you?

Yes I will try it out. Probably make a diy divotaction kind of thing out of it. They have 2.4" grass as well, should be great rough practice. Even though real courses could have taller rough, it looks like the ball buries a lot more with the fake turf.

[Brettster]

stunted - that's great, let us know how it turns out for you. So, they do have 2.4" grass, what type is it? I pushed these balls down pretty good to get them to bury, but I think they should do a good job of simulating much more than an easy fairway turf, such as first cut (maybe without pushing the ball down), and rough/deep rough (with pushing ball down), I'm just curious how it will affect the various launch monitors?

Does anyone have a report on that? I'd like to get an idea of how well a 1.) camera-based LM does with penalizing you from hitting out of this, 2.) radar-based LM does, and then maybe compare overhead camera (Uneekor) versus facing camera (SkyTrak), etc.

[stunted]

Brettster just made a sample order so I'll be able to try it with a quad very soon. The 2.4 grass is bluegrass supreme and fescue surpreme.

From what I've found this company has even taller grass somewhere on this site, but I don't know how to make an order with them:

https://shanzhong.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.details.cordpanyb.2.3732cbff1beIGZ

[Brettster]

I would be careful with the ordering from the chinese companies. They might be fine, but take a long-time to arrive, especially with pandemic, and also, I would not trust the quality. That's one of the benefits of PurchaseGreen, they are in USA and ship fast and you can probably talk to someone on the phone if you call them (I didn't need to).