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Panasonic VZ580 question

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  • Panasonic VZ580 question

    Snaphook and abirdie4me seem to be very happy with this choice of PJ but I have some questions regarding their setup.
    If I put Snaphook 's setup in to the Panasonic throw distance calculator (11'x7' screen size, 13' throw distance, 9' projector height), then with the maximum -44% vertical lens shift, the bottom of the image would be some 2ft off the floor.
    Presuming that one wants the image to be displayed to the floor, this suggests to me that the PJ is tilted downwards (about 6.5 degrees).
    Is this correct or have I completely misinterpreted things?
    If correct, does one then use keystone correction to square up the image?
    If so, is there much of an impact on image quality? I suspect not for this correction amount and that we are talking about a sim rather than a HD video.

    I'm intending to project an image of 13.5ft wide at 16:10. This means a minimum throw distance of about 15ft.
    I need the PJ to be at about 9ft to avoid the garage door killing it and to be able to hit from about 10ft out. I'm 6ft tall so I think this avoids shadow issues - at least according to my trig calcs.
    I'd then only need about 3 degrees tilt to project image to floor.
    Please let me know if I'm on the right track or not.

    Thanks a lot!
    Mike

  • #2
    I'm intrigued as to the answer ! I considered this projector for a 16' X 9' screen but ruled it out because I think I would have created a shadow on screen.

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    • #3
      Just ordered this projector, will post pics when mounted. I have 12' ceiling, 12*10 screen. Gonna try to project 12x8 from about 14'

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      • #4
        I'll use nividia to scale the sides in just a touch

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        • #5
          So I thought I'd share my (long-winded) final thoughts on this.
          Overall, I feel that the projector is a great fit at it's price level. A slightly shorter throw ratio and larger amount of vertical shift would have made it perfect in my opinion for my needs but I can still make it work for me without too much downside. I prefer to have the 16:10 native aspect ratio at 1920x1200 resolution over say 16:9 or 4:3. The 5000 lumens is a plus, but I'm not sure if that's true ANSI lumens, and it's negated somewhat by a longer throw distance. However, 2 members her on the forum have given it top marks and abirdie4me has shown some comparison photos, remarking on the PJ's brightness - and he has a long throw distance.

          Some calculations:
          Hitting distance: A typical hitting distance is 10'. This is usually for a screen height of 9', so highest launch angle without hitting over the screen is about 42 degrees. You can find trackman data for tour players showing that they hit a PW at 24.2 degrees on average, so if we're measuring the same thing then it seems there is quite a margin for mishits here. Though I'd still be putting in top and side netting for mishits. I figure that a minimum screen height of 8' would be acceptable but would prefer closer to 9'.
          My working space is 22'x16'x12' (LxWxH) but I have cathedral ceilings with lowest height of 8', so I can't go e.g. 16x10. I want to maximize screen height at 16:10 aspect ratio. For example, 14'x8.75'.

          Shadows/Projector height: I stand 6' tall and figure that in my golf stance I'm closer to 5'10". We also stand to the side, so any shadow for a RH player will be at bottom left of screen so may not be an issue, but we all wish to avoid shadows if possible.
          At a hitting distance of 10', the bottom projector ray should be at an angle of arctan(6/10)=30.96 degrees to avoid shadows for a person standing 6' tall.
          There is a throw distance calculator at panasonic.net that we can use.
          I put in my room dimensions and aim for an initial screen size of 164.8"x103", giving me a minimum throw distance (TD) of 180.94". In reality, I'd want to have some wriggle room so would use a longer TD at less than max zoom.
          But using this TD, I'd need the projector to be at 180.94x0.6=108.6", in order to avoid shadow issues.
          However, at maximum 44% vertical shift for this PJ the bottom of the image would be 11.8" off the floor. Some people might be ok with this, but if you wanted the bottom of the image to be on the floor then the projector needs to be tilted down and this will introduce keystone distortion.

          Effect of tilt/keystone distortion: We can estimate the image dimensions after tilt. I've done the calculations but eventually I found a nice website for this: stephenmasson.com/misc/projectorkeystone.html. Although we have to be a little careful here because he assumes you want to to tilt up rather than down.
          The throw distance calculator gives me the necessary parameters to input apart from the required shift down from top of image.
          I have: drop from ceiling to lens center = 38.4, drop from ceiling to top of image=32.22, screen image of 103"x164.8", TD=180.94.
          I calculate a shift to raise top of image of -8.89" which gives the result that the tilted image will be 105.9" high with top width 164.7" and bottom width 169.5".
          I figure that if I allow for some zoom wriggle-room then I should go for a screen size of 14'x8.75' = 168"x105".
          The distortion should be minimal and I could always try to tilt screen or use vertical keystone correction. Overall loss of resolution would be -2.87% - so minimal.

          Image shift calcs:
          top ray makes angle to parallel of arctan(0.06*103/180.94)=1.96 degrees.
          bottom ray makes angle of arctan(0.94*103/180.94)=28.15 degrees
          required angle for bottom ray = arctan(0.6)=30.96 degrees
          so tilt angle = 2.81 degrees
          top drops down by 0.06*103 - 180.94tan(1.96-2.81) = 8.86" (to greater accuracy=8.89" as used above)

          Conclusion: Should be fine!!!

          Comment


          • aja
            aja commented
            Editing a comment
            Comment on your assumption that Tour Player data can be used for launch angles - unless you're a Tour player, it can't.

            My highest measured launch angle for "flop" shots is 55 degrees. Those shots will definitely hit the ceiling and not the screen from 10 feet away from the screen.

          • MrBelette
            MrBelette commented
            Editing a comment
            LOL - guilty as charged! I definitely geeked out on this one and I only revealed half the story. Anyway, I've gotten some great information from this forum so wanted to give something back if I could.

          • MrBelette
            MrBelette commented
            Editing a comment
            aja - thanks for your launch angle data. I was planning to have ceiling protection starting from screen at 8.75' for 6' to a maximum height of 11'. That gives a good launch angle margin above your reference point, so I'm happy with that.

        • #6
          I setup mine last night on 12' ceiling. I did have to tilt projector down a little. I used the corner correction to square image. Looks great! Much brighter than the short throw i was using.

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          • pwade3
            pwade3 commented
            Editing a comment
            So on a 10’ Ceiling you would likely not have to tilt the projector down?

          • Thundergolf
            Thundergolf commented
            Editing a comment
            10' ceiling should be about perfect

        • #7
          @Thundergolf: Saw the photo you posted - well done, great job! I'll be ordering PJ and custom-sized screen after I return from a golfing break and will post my efforts when done. Thanks for being the experimenter to the theoretician!

          Comment


          • #8
            MrBelette and Thundergolf, Thanks for your hard work as i don't have a clue about proving math and the details you have mentioned above about projectors as i have never even turned the power on to one yet i guess. With a room of 10'4" high, 14' wide and 19' long, do you think this Panasonic VZ580 projector would be a good one, or this other BenQ HT2150ST that others recommend? I really don't have a clue as i don't have anything built but the overall room dimension and led lights in the ceiling. I can get zero light in the room or turn on led's in the ceiling so, lighting i can control easy, but i want the better projector (8k) and i need to figure out the projector i guess i am told before i start with anything else in this room like the screen and such?

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            • #9
              MrBellette,

              Thank you for all your analysis and calculations. I am also considering this Panasonic VZ580 projector, as well the 2 other WUXGA native 16:10 (1920 X 1200) projectors: the BenQ SU922 and the ViewSonic Pro8800WUL.

              The BenQ and ViewSonic have minimum throw ratios of 1.07 and the Panasonic has a minimum throw ratio of 1.09, which is a minimal difference. The set up that I am considering is a 16:10 screen that is either 12’ X 7’ 6” or 12’6” X 7’ 9-¾”. That would be the usable area of screen for image projection. The total screen dimensions will be a little larger including the border.

              Optimally I would like to hit balls 10 feet from the screen, however I can move back a little if I have to, in order to not cause shadows with my head and/or clubs during my swing. I’m 6 feet tall and right handed and I will be hitting balls that are lined up with the center of the screen.

              According to the ProjectorCentral.com calculator, I would need to mount these projectors the following distances from the screen to project on the screen sizes that I am considering:

              Panasonic VZ580U: 13’ 1” to 13’ 8”

              BenQ SU922 & ViewSonic Pro8800WUL: 12’ 10” to 13’ 5

              So the BenQ and ViewSonic can be mounted a negligible 3 inches closer to the screen than the Panasonic.

              I want my projected image to start at the floor. The ceiling height in my garage is approximately 9’ 4”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume based on what you wrote that I won’t have to tilt any of these projectors downward for the bottom of the image to start at the floor.

              My main concern with these projectors is whether or not I will cause any shadows when I am hitting a ball lined up at the center of the screen, 10 feet from the screen with the projector mounted between 3’ to 4’ behind me, 13’ to 14’ feet from the screen. I assume that when I mount the projector to my 9’ 3” ceiling that the lens will be at around 8’3” if I mount the projector in a bracket that drops it 1 foot below the ceiling.

              So in your rough estimation based on your calculations for your set up, do you think my set up will work with either of these projectors without causing any shadows? If you DO think I’ll have an issue with shadows, how much farthee back do you think I would need to hit balls from to avoid shadows?

              Finally, does anyone on here have a preference for 3LCD or DLP projectors for a golf simulator? From everything I’ve read online each technology has certain advantages and disadvantages and I really couldn’t determine a clear winner. Just curious if anyone on here has an opinion.

              The prices and specs for these 3 projectors are all very similar, but the one major difference is that the BenQ and ViewSonic are both DLP projectors and the Panasonic is a 3LCD projector.

              The other specs are all pretty similar. Contrast ratio varies but every manufacturer measures contrast differently so without independent testing reviews where they measured contrast, you can’t really trust these manufacturer published numbers for contrast. Brightness (lumens) has a similar issue, but all of these are around 5,000 lumens. I did read that DLP technology is known for a brighter image and 3LCD is known for more vivid colors.

              ViewSonic Pro8800WUL
              Display type: DLP
              Throw ratio: 1.07 to 1.71
              Brightness: 5,200 lumens
              Contrast: 5,000 to 1
              3D Compable: YES
              Lamp life: 2,000 hours
              Fan noise: 33 dB
              Price: $1,450

              Panasonic VZ580U
              Display type: 3LCD
              Throw ratio: 1.09 to 1.77
              Brightness: 5,000 lumens
              Contrast: 16,000 to 1
              3D Compable: NO
              Lamp life: 5,000 hours
              Fan noise: 37 dB
              Price: $1,250

              BenQ SU922
              Display type: 1.07 to 1.71
              Brightness: 5,000 lumens
              Contrast: 3,000 to 1
              3D Compable: YES
              Lamp life: 2,000 hours
              Fan noise: 36bdB
              Price: $1,450



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              • #10
                Mr Bellette,

                I read thru your numbers again and I used the Panasonic throw distance calculator and I don’t see how you came up with your image being 11.8” off the floor. This projector can vertically shift the image up to 44% of the image height, so with a 8.75’ high image, you should be able to use the vertical image shift to shift the image down from the center of the lens as much as 3.85 feet or 44% of 8.75’.

                If you mount the projector on the ceiling such that the center of the lens is 11 feet off the ground and your screen is mounted flush with the ground, then the top of the screen will be 8.75 feet off the ground. So the distance between the center of the lens at 11’ and the top of the screen at 8.75’ would be 2.25 feet which is well within the range of the vertical lens shift which can shift the image down up to 3.85 feet.

                So you shouldn’t have to manually tilt the projector at all. Just use the vertical lens shift to shift the image down 2.25 feet so that the bottom of the image goes to the floor and the top of the image is aligned with the top of your 8.75’ tall screen.
                Last edited by EricOtown; 01-10-2019, 04:56 AM.

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                • #11
                  EricOtown, which projector did you decide to go with? I'm interested in either the Panasonic VZ580U or the BenQ SU922 but in both cases am worried about shadows hitting at 10' from the screen. I'm doing a 16:10 screen at 13'x8.25' and I'm calculating the mounting distance at 17.5' from the screen.

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