"The Thread" for Club Head Data Analysis

[Gawlfa]

Hello All,
I just purchased the club data add-on for my Quad. Now that I have access to this data, I really have very little knowledge on what to do with it. NFear's post to the "7 iron" thread made me think that perhaps we can all share our ideas on what to look for in club data, how to analyze the data, how to improve the numbers, what relationships exists between numbers, exercises to help change undesirable numbers, etc. Having all of this information in one thread might be very useful.

If this thread exists somewhere else or if there is a good online reference, please point me to it!

Some background on myself--- Many years ago, I was very close to being a scratch golfer. I had wrist surgery about 8 years ago and have struggled with my game ever since. In 2019, I only got to play 4 rounds of golf due to my daughter's sports schedules, plus my back and wrist were achy. So...I took 18 months off to let the body recover and decided to come back strong with an upgraded sim studio and a gcquad in the Fall of 2020. I absolutely love playing sim golf and I love being able to hit anytime and without having to worry about the outside weather.

Since coming back, I have really lost a lot of distance. Not sure if this is an age thing (I'm now over 50) or if it just because it is kind of cold in the garage and the ball isn't compressing as much. Either way, I'm fine with losing distance but wanted club data to be able to improve my ball striking. Where I'm really struggling is off the tee. I used to be straight down the middle, 280 yards, with a baby draw. Now, I feel like I only hit it that far with hard fairways, downhill, and helping wind. My swing speed has slowed down for sure as now it seems I'm in the mid 90s instead of low 100s. (Note: This is not indoor swing syndrome as I have 13' ceilings and a lot of room in my sim area.) I do believe part of it is age and part of it is loss of flexibility from not playing for so long.

From the 7i thread, here are a few of my numbers:

AoA = -2.1
Club Path = +9.3
Dynamic Loft = 23.3
Face to Target = +4.3
Face to Path = -5.0

I know I can't be the only person with these types of questions --- What should I try to improve? Is my club path too far in-to-out? Am I closing the face too much? Should I worry about AoA? Are there different recommended values for AoA based on the club you are using? And so many more...

[Baller]

Saw your other thread but didn't see you in to out number until I reread it. YES, that is way too in to out. Practice hitting shot out to in to even it out and try the other things I mentioned in that thread.

Speed could be due to age, could be due to lack of practice, a lot of things. Covid killed my speed by not playing. I was at 110-112 with driver and when I started practicing again was at 102 and working to get that back. Working my way back slowly with swing speed training and exercise.

I would certainly worry about your ball striking. Set up a channel with alignment sticks just wide enough to hit the ball and not the sticks and practice that. It forces you to bemore aware of where you strike it. I really would not worry about things like closure rate unless you have problems after you fix that path. Your AOA is great IMO. Your dynamic loft not to great. Try to at least stay under 20 for a 7i or you're scooping;

Also, another way to think about path and its extremes...the further away you are from a 0.0 swing path, the further away your misses will be.

Hope that helps!

[RollinRox]

I think your AOA is right at the lower threshold of good. If it drops below -2 degrees, it could be a problem. Right around -3-4 with a 7i is ideal IMO. My coach always says to try to get club path and face within 2 degrees of straight. I think this a good threshold to aim for and will make your shots much straighter if you are striking it well. Do you ever take lessons? Because your numbers are a bit extreme, I would recommend taking a lesson or two because there might be some technical things that would help straighten out your numbers. The Quad is an incredible tool, but the data isn't helpful if you aren't sure what is causing your path and face numbers to be off. I think if you took a lesson, a pro could offer insight and advice that would help you to utilize the power of your Quad much better.

[cmckelvmi]

Check out a PGA instructor that has had additional training in the HMT data. https://www.shankygolf.co.uk/

[Taco]

I think in general, the closer to zero you can be with your path the better. The range for me is -1 to +2 with almost every club in the bag, driver being about the narrowest wanting to be as close as possible to 0, and wedges having a bit bigger gap depending in the shot shape knowing they don’t curve as much.

For my practice sessions it’s really 3 things, club path, dynamic loft, and face to path. Those three combine to determine how high, what direction, and what shape and they are all related. So, an ideal 7 iron playing my stock shot (cut) would be about +.5 path, 21* loft, face open about 1*. That’s about as stock a baby cut as I can hit. If my numbers start getting out of whack, it’s almost always a ball position issue... inside out too much would be too far back, too much loft is usually too far forward.

Finally, for finesse wedges, launch under 30* and an efficiency under 1 is a good place to be. We don’t get spin loft, I wish we did but you can figure it pretty closely in your head, I think spin loft max spin is somewhere around 45*. I don’t really remember exactly, but I’ve really learned to recognize the relationship between launch, efficiency, and spin. I have more types of wedge shots now just by experimenting with swings and seeing what impact my feel has on the club and ultimately the ball. You can’t control distance with wedges without controlling the shot shape, at least I can’t.

nice idea for a thread, I hope it gets some traction. I’ll be watching .

[delaloi]

Gawlfa you must be hitting some big swinging hooks with that path and face-to-path. That shot may well be on the green and probably looks cool but not the most controllable shot.

For me, with a mid-iron the ideal is path 1-3 degrees in-to-out, and face-to-path 1-3 degrees closed. A nice soft push-draw. I don't try to get everything to zero because small changes then make the ball curve either direction. Starting out straight is good but I want to know which way it's going to curve, particularly if it's windy. Agree with Taco that driver angles you want closest to zeroed out.

I also use lie angle. It is a constant struggle for me to get that flat -- I fight the toe-down strike, and the worse that angle is, the more I know I've gotten too steep and flippy.

[Dax]

Would a face that is closed not create too much draw (overdraw)? Don’t you want your face to be open, just just not as open as your path? I.e if your path is 3 in to out, then having your club face 2 open should create a rather nice push draw?

[Taco]

Dax you’re talking about two different things, face to path and face to target. Face to target relationship has a large influence on where the ball starts relative to the target. Face to path relationship has a large influence on shape. In this instance if he has a swing direction of +3 and a face to path of -2 he still have a face to target of +1, that would probably produce some type of push draw but d-plane, lie angle, and gear effect all contribute as well.

[Dax]

Oh yes I had thought he meant face to target. Sorry for the misread.

[Gawlfa]

In the past, I had a very consistent ball flight --- the ball starts a little right and has a baby draw. However, since coming back it feels like I have been swinging more and more inside to out and I'm struggling figuring out how to correct it. Every now and then, I do have a big swinging hook or I tend to push straight right. Some of this is because I know I'm not rotating my hips but rather am sliding them toward the target. (A big no-no)

I did look at Shankygolf's videos and the first one about the "reverse K" actually helped me a bunch. My shots had less hook and more baby draw and they were starting less further to the right. It also felt like I was consistently hitting the ball solid.

Is "efficiency" the same as "smash factor" in Foresight speak?

One person told me: "The goal is to make your path and face off set to zero consistently. Inside path, closed face, etc. The rest of the numbers will vary by person." - This is exactly what Taco posted as well.

[Taco]

Keep in mind, this is my “medicine”, I was a golf pro but I am not a golf pro and haven’t given a lesson in 20 years. Further, I wasn’t a very good pro so that makes me even more dangerous to listen to.

That said, I don’t necessarily want my face and path relationship to be zero. I want my ball starting online and curving away from that line. I don’t want push draws or pull cuts, I want straight balls that cut or draw. Think of DJ and his cut, he’s aiming at the left edge working it back to the middle, not aiming at the middle and pulling it left then cutting back. If my path is consistent I can hit draws or cuts from the top of my backswing, that’s my goal.

Finally, yes smash factor and efficiency are the same but they are measured differently so 1.5 smash and 1.45 efficiency are really about the same when comparing data between TrackMan and foresight.

[fortysixandtwo]

Another thing to consider is AoA. 2.1 is low but it’s not really your fault..it because of the extreme in to out path. Your too dumped under...I like my AoA with 7 iron closer to 5 and try to keep my dynamic loft low enough to the the ball launch around 16* with a 7 iron.

Now if your path is 0 and face is 0, but AoA is 4-5 down, AoA pushes your path out 2/1 ratio almost. With the driver if your AoA is up you have to aim a little right to offset it’s affect on pushing path out to in...

Get your path 3 or less and face to path 1.5 or less is a good goal for us all.. lol

Dynamic loft is a my nemesis since I tend to flip..

[Taco]

100% agree with all of this.

[Gawlfa]

Awesome, thanks. This helps give me something to shoot for.

[A.West]

After I got the GC2 and HMT a couple years ago and wanted to put that data to use, I also noted the lack of advice. The best solution I could find is to buy (on Kindle) the book "The Ultimate Guide to Trackman Swing Analysis" by Jim Mclean and Adam Kolloff. While it's written for Trackman, most of the key data points have parallels in the Foresight output.
In that book they give advice for three levels of player about what kind of swing data ranges you should be targeting, with some tips about how to get there will some drills, and ideas for fixing common flaws.
I found it theoretically useful, but one thing I notice is that some flaws are super-hard to fix by themselves. Adam Young's "The Practice Manual" has some ideas for changing swing outcomes that could also help, as his book at least focuses on things like AoA, face to path, etc., even if he doesn't give specific machine numbers. But I found out that it still took an in person pro to help me fix some major flaws. And I still don't get enough downward AoA on my irons, being a sweeper/occasional lifter of the ball, especially when I practice on mats.

[Gawlfa]

Thanks! I have been viewing Jim McLean's Trackman videos, so will definitely check out this book.

[chicub15]

Foresight has a free online training class which teaches you everything you need to know about each parameter the GCQuad gives you.
peak.foresightsports.com remove the "www." and then the link will work

[4evaunderpar]

Hi, are you right handed?

At the top of your backswing try to spin your left side open, try to open up as much as possible on the downswing. That might zero your swing path out a little, post me your new numbers