Foresight Integration with swing analysis software

[Parorelse]

I am ready for the next phase of my sim build. I want to add cameras (2) and swing analysis software to my GCQuad and FSX. This is a major decision as it appears the camera choice is very important at this point.

Comments below are from my research and I welcome all other thoughts or comments. Thank you in advance.
The 2 they I have found are Swing Catalyst and V1 Sports.

Swing Catalyst (SC) - Annual subscription for 2 cameras is $199. good to great analysis software that integrates with FSX. Cameras - their top end is around $800/each + lens $?. Appears imaging source doesn't play well with SC so looking at SC cameras. Motion and Balance plates are $7k - $30k.

V1 Sports - Annual subscription $590 - good/great analysis software - I have used their app for some time. Appears fully integrated to FSX but have found less information on it. Top of the line Camera option is $1,699/each + $700/each for lens. Option to use Imaging Source cameras they run close to SC options above but less confident about setup support and integration with V1. Balance mat is $2,700 but fully wireless and portable. If I go through V1 they also indicate a setup fee for outside PC. BOTTOM LINE - more expensive for everything but balance mat.

I know it is a lot of info. I have read everything I could find on the forum and did not find any specifics. I want to keep work higher end cameras and willing to pay for V1 mat but don't see me swinging for the SC mat/plate.

Thanks in advance for any experience, comments, or advise.

New Sim Builder and Forum member.

[wzjy47]

I tried out Swing Catalyst using their free trial and it worked great with both cheap $80 black and white USB cameras and the blackfly gige-04 cameras. The cheap cameras did show some shaft blur, but you could see your swing good enough (~120 fps). The blackfly cameras got up to ~290 fps and eliminated the shaft blur, but required a lot of light. A standard 100W light was probably the minimum needed in my garage, but they had a lot of flickering. gunghogolf has a good article on lighting and some recommendations:

https://gunghogolf.com/articles/indoor-swing-video-lighting

If you're interesting in a cheaper route, FSX with the $80 cameras does the job. FSX isn't great, but it is nice to have all the swings and data saved together on your FSX live account. I believe a lot of folks use Kinovea and OBS, which are free. They take some work to get setup correctly, but are great for recording your swing and automatic playback. There are several lengthy threads on these in the forum.

[Parorelse]

Thank you for the comments. it is very helpful.

[fortysixandtwo]

I started using my iPhone with iv cam and it works decent enough at 1080p 60fps through fsx. My favorite is live view pro with an iPad so you can see things in real time. Following thread to find some basic cameras to setup permanent in fsx…

[MongoOnlyPawn]

I'm using the Home Version of Swing Catalyst with 2 Imaging Source USB 3.0 cameras. They work well, but SC has their own cameras (use the Blackfly USB 3.0 version) which I would use if I had to do it over again. Swing Catalyst is built around the BlackFly cameras and the software & setup/use would have been much simpler & easier had I used them, the software lends itself well to remembering configurations & settings, whereas with the Imaging Source cameras there are a couple of settings

Remember that FPS isn't the only thing needed to get good video, you need a decent shutter speed also. You can record stuff @ 300 FPS but but if your shutter speed is too low it's gonna look crappy. Most of the shaft blur is caused by Shutter Speed, not FPS, and the main factor behind shutter speed is lighting. I'm using a setup similar to GungHo Golf's recommendations (see link provided by wzyj47 above). Lighting is finicky, you'll spend some time getting it correct, but them more lumens you have the lower your shutter speed can be.

If you drop your requirements for the type of output you are asking the cameras to produce you'll get enough FPS. You don't need to record your swing in 1920x1080, you can set it a 1280 x 1024 and significantly increase FPS. I have flicker, but I'm not posting anything online. When my friends & I have been using the analysis vids the flicker isn't an issue.

I tried using V1 with my Imaging Source cameras, they kind of bailed on me, never was able to get V1 to "see" the cameras.

I tried using the FSX tool inside of FSX 2020 but felt it was a bit clunky & difficult to use. I was never able to find the way to adjust camera settings in the FSX program. If I had been using the SC BlackFLy cameras I think FSX might have been more useable.

Swing Catalyst is email support, not a phone number anywhere, but once you get their attention they are pretty good.

[Parorelse]

Great feedback. It will be great when a few of these become more "standard" and actually all play well together.

[MongoOnlyPawn]

BlackFly should work, they are the cameras SC recommends.

[wzjy47]

MongoOnlyPawn Thanks! I’ll keep working on it.

[jasonreg]

Swing Catalyst (SC) - Annual subscription for 2 cameras is $199. good to great analysis software that integrates with FSX. Cameras - their top end is around $800/each + lens $?. Appears imaging source doesn't play well with SC so looking at SC cameras. Motion and Balance plates are $7k - $30k.

So I also use Imaging Source Cameras (2 x DFK 33UX273 USB 3 Cameras with A3Z2812CS-MPWIR, 2 1/2.7" 2.8-8.5mm, F1.2, Vario-focal, HD Series Manual, CS-mount, Day/Night IR, 5MP lenses), and I am not sure I agree with your comment.

I find the IS Cameras work extremely well with Swing Catalyst though as MongoOnlyPawn suggests it 'may' be easier to use the BlackFly cameras. I will say that recently I had contacted Imaging Source to discuss optimizing my setup and they told me that Swing Catalyst is just about to start officially supporting Imaging Source cameras. I take this to mean the extra steps using the proprietary IC software to tweak the cameras may no longer be required. Regardless, the cameras showed up first time I opened the software and I can tweak some of the camera capture settings directly from Swing Catalyst no problems.

My Cameras were $400 each and the lenses were another $130 each or so IIRC. Key here is the lens needs to be matched to your distance between camera and golfer well or you will have issues straight out of the gate.

I have also read (Here I think) that Foresight may not be planning on supporting cameras formally within FSX Play and that they will be using Swing Catalyst as their Camera integration software. It does, as mentioned work fine with FSX2020. And as an aside, the cameras do show up in FSX2020 just fine, I just use the SC software as the recording and playback options are so much more powerful so I run both programs independently on different screens.

All this to say, I would stick with SC for your application. Spend the money on the cameras (and proper lenses) IMHO.

[Parorelse]

Thank you. This is perfect feedback for my situation.

[Kmurray]

As a person that uses cheap cameras that suit my use requirements, I will be disappointed if after buying the "FSX Play Upgrade" at $500.00 if the camera integration is limited to subscription based model that requires further investment in cameras that I don't want. Don't like this business model one bit and not likely to invest in anything further , unless Foresight release a definitive road map of what they will provide in Play moving forward.. Currently doesn't seem Play is an upgrade , more a downgrade in capability with an unseen hook to drag in purchasers.
Can't really think of many areas where manufacturers are allowed to hook customers without detailing what people will actually get.
Foresight , can you detail roadmap plans for Play with reference to existing FSX 2020 capability ?
Pretty Please?

[wzjy47]

Hi Kmurray, FYI, I have 2 of the cheap USB cameras recommended in the Kinovea thread and they did work with swing catalyst so may not need to buy new cameras.

[Kmurray]

Thanks, it is good to know that they will work, but I don't want to have to take an extra subscription out. FSX Play should have open camera integration similar to 2020 without a subscription. Without that it's a downgrade not an upgrade.

[Critzblank]

Check out JC Video. They have added integration with Foresight to add club/ball data to the display and I recently purchased their pressure plate (which should arrive today) which it's information will also be on display.

https://www.jcvideo.com/

I bought everything as a purchase with NO subscription fees.

[Tom Howarth]

I took a quick look at their site. It looks like they are geared more towards teaching professionals. Are you an instructor? I have a GC Quad arriving soon for my home simulator set up. I was planning on getting some Imaging Source cameras and using the software in FSX 2020 to view my swing. I would like good detail, but I am not an aspiring tour player. I want to avoid, if I can, any future issues if Foresight pushes everyone towards using Swing Catalyst.

[ChrisinOr]

Do people have recommendations on how to source the "cheap $80 USB cameras". I feel like my internet searching is failing me and would love referrals to vendors/hardware people have had success with.

[Kmurray]

Try searching Kayeton. They are the manufacturers some of the cameras that people have used. They will pop up on Amazon etc. I got mine via Ebay but they seem to have disappeared from there.

[wzjy47]

Here’s the link to what I’ve been using:

Glo Global Shutter High Speed 120fps 720P Monochrome Black White Webcam UVC Plug Play Driverless OTG USB Camera with Mini Case

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07Q35V5NP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GP9G6FD8GBGFQX9ZT3ZC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[Critzblank]

Check out JC Video. They have added integration with Foresight to add club/ball data to the display and I recently purchased their pressure plate (which should arrive today) which it's information will also be on display.

https://www.jcvideo.com/

I bought everything as a purchase with NO subscription fees.

Yes, I do teach. JC Video has an agreement in place with Foresight. I was pointing out, mainly, that JC VIdeo has a ground force plate for those looking for that info. They also support high speed cameras.