Brand New GC2 off by 20-25% - Advice?

[Danielwt]

Hello all. So I bit the bullet and ordered the GC2 brand new from Foresight. My goal/intention is to use it as an in home driving range (not so much interested in sim). As such, and even though I also received the FR1 software and a few courses with my purchase, I set it up (initially) without downloading/updating anything. I literally just wanted an out-of-the-box experience; flip it open, push the power button, and go to work (happy with numbers only)... Unfortunately, there seems to be pretty significant issues. Please read on...

The problem? My distance numbers are off by 20% (give or take) on every shot, and I even question the spin numbers... I'll use my 7 iron to give you a visual: My "normal" (real life) 7 iron is in the 165-170 yard range, no roll (my divots are within 5' of where the ball ends up). On the GC2, I cannot (even if I swing for the fences), get a distance reading of over 150 yards. Most of my shots are reading right around 140 yards; FOR A 7 IRON!

I have read EVERY thread relating to the GC2 within these forums, and yes -- I've read the few that talk about potential issues perpetuating distance type problems. None of the advice (potential diagnosis') seem to apply:

Here are a few important notes with regards to what I've read from previous threads:
1) I use a CCE mat. As such, I've teed it up to ensure clean contact. No change in results noted.
2) I have ensured the unit is level with the hitting surface, and even tried to elevate the unit by as much as 1/2" above the hitting surface. Again, no change noted.
3) Yes, I've ensured that the kickstand is all the way deployed, and the unit is all the way open.
4) I have experimented with varying degrees of lighting. No change noted.
5) I've been hitting balls into my Net Return, off the CCE mat, for over 4 years now. My garage has 15' ceilings. Previous "launch monitors" (the cheap radar type) have always been relatively on par (indoor) with my outdoor swing speed and carry distances. As such, I cannot attribute this to the "indoor effect."
6) I have ensured that measurements are in yards/mph/etc...
7) I have tested with the pro V1, the pro V1x, the Bridgestone 330, and the Taylor made TPX. No changes noted.

Before I move on, here were my mizuno shaft optimizer numbers with a 6 iron (also validated by a custom fitting at Izett golf):
Head Speed 94mph | Tempo 4 | Toe down 5 | Kick Angle 7 | Release factor 9. The mizuno fitting recommended a project x 6.5 shaft, and I LOVE them...

I just documented a few swings on the GC2, swapping out balls each time... I also measured a few with a tee (top of tee about 1/8" above the turf), where I was sure contact was clean. Also; the unit might not be perfectly aligned, but I eye-balled it parallel to the hitting mat (perpendicular to the net). Here are the numbers (I'm right handed):

	Swing 1 (with tee)	Swing 2	Swing 3 (with tee)	Swing 4	Swing 5 (with tee)
Ball Speed	107	108	110	107	109
Launch Angle	23.7	25.2	23.5	25.2	23.8
Push/Pull	2.4L	2.6L	3.8L	0.1R	2.0L
Side Spin	1256R	1646R	1021R	2151R	1725R
Back Spin	7845	8390	7057	8960	8190
Carry	141	139	145	136	142

For perspective, these numbers are typical of my "real life" 9 iron distances (per laser range finder). I'm not the greatest golfer in the world, but I have a very clear understanding of my iron gaps. Also, on swing 1 and swing 4 I tried to "draw" the ball. The ball clearly hit the net just about center, and spun to the left (you can see this happening with the Net Return). My normal miss (in real life) is a pull, sometimes a pull hook.

To me, the launch angle and back spin seem to be way off, but I'm not an expert with GC2 numbers...

---

To be clear: I have not downloaded/updated any software. I literally took it (the GC2) out of the box, and went to work. Again, I'm not very interested in simulation software; I just want numbers (plan on using the ipad app almost exclusively).

My "version" (per the unit display) is 4.0.0.15; "copyright 2015."

You guys are the experts and so I'd love to hear/read your opinions. Another member is currently emailing me the 'tilt-calibration' software, but I'm a little upset that this may be necessary. The unit is literally brand new (just received it two days ago)... Do you guys think that the tilt calibration is the obvious solution, or can something else be going on? Must I hook this thing up to the internet and download drivers/software for it to work properly???

Looking forward to any/all responses; thanks!

[wbond]

Well, my first suggestion would be to take it to a range with verified distances. You should know straight away if the unit is off for both distance and direction. If it's not, then at least you'll know the unit is good and you can start looking elsewhere at your home environment for possible causes.

[Danielwt]

Taking it to the range this afternoon for 100% clarity / testing, but I can assure you that I'm very comfortable swinging indoors. 90% of my practice over the past four years has been indoors, off a CCE mat, and into the Net Return.

I will post an update after the range though, just in case... Who knows....

[Ronsc1985]

First thing to try is go to the Foresight support page and reload the GC2 operating system. You have the latest release but maybe there was an error in the previous loading or you eprom dropped a bit or two..

Second thing is to run the tilt calibration routine. Most problems reported on this site are due to this being off. You are actually storing the offsets in the accelerometers used in the GC2 to sense the units tilt. The idea is to set the GC2 up exactly level in all three axis so the when you place the unit in your actual hitting position it knows what the actual tilts are. This is particularly important when hitting on a range since all ranges are constructed with some tilts to facilitate drainage. Remember the GC2 reports all it's numbers relative to itself.

If you have a computer and monitor hooked up use the FR1 range software to observe the ball flight. From the numbers you posted it looks like you are hitting a fairly severe pull with some slice spin.

You can also contact Foresight customer service. I have found them to be very helpful.

Hang in there. Everyone I'm aware of who had initial distance troubles has resolved them.

[SwingLeft]

I received my new GC2 last Thursday, running the same firmware v4.0.0.15. I have to say I am seeing the same issues low ball speeds, and high side spins too thru all clubs. I carry my 9i close to 150 irl but I'm struggling to carry 130 on GC2. I plan on tasking it to the range soon when weather allows. Does anyone know how long has this firmware been released? Also I have run the calibration tool with no change noticed.

[Danielwt]

Have you contacted Foresight yet? I plan on hooking this thing up to a computer and downloading/updating everything (then testing again), before I reach out to them. Again, I haven't personally done anything other than take it out the box and turn it on...

I came to the forums first though, because I kinda' wanted to avoid EVER having to hook it up to any computer. I guess this is their way of drawing me into the sim world (by making me calibrate/update various things); I'll probably get hooked and buy ten-thousand dollars worth of courses... lol

As long as the numbers eventually reflect accuracy, I'm okay with jumping through these minor hoops, but I really wish it weren't necessary... smdh...

[SwingLeft]

I have hooked it up to my computer and used on foresight range. I talked to foresight yesterday. My question to them was do I need to paint the wall facing the GC2 black because now it is unpainted osb and I thought the color may be an issue causing misreads, but I was told no. Then I was told to make sure there was nothing reflective on my shoes. I changed shoes because the toes of the running shoes I was wearing had reflective tape on them. No improvement was seen. The low carry distances and side spin is very frustrating, this is not what I expected from a unit of this price. I will call FS again today to see if an older FW may help to correct what I am seeing, I will keep you all posted.

[Danielwt]

FYI: I took it to the range today (black golf shoes), and saw very similar (short) numbers to what I saw indoors. I'm hoping this is just some sort of tech problem that can be easily resolved.

If you don't mind me asking: Per your GC2 data, what are your average 7iron numbers? (Ball speed, Launch Angle, Backspin, and carry are all I really care about). I wonder if they hold ratios similar to mine (you're a longer hitter, so we'd have to use ratios). Whether, or not the ratios are similar may shed some light on our issue(s)...

[Danielwt]

***UPDATE****

Ok... Just got back from the range. Only hit about 50 balls or so since I was already warmed up from the garage session.

Result? I can tell you UNEQUIVOCALLY that my GC2 is waaaayyyyyy off with regards to distance, and possibly other measurements...

The flag I used for measurement purposes was at exactly 143 yards; verified by my Leupold laser finder -- which coincided with the daily board the course usually puts up.

GC2 numbers (at the range; off grass), for my 9 iron (the only iron I used, for easy measurement purposes), put the carry distance right at 120 yards (average). ACTUAL carry distance, again --verified by laser finder -- averaged 140-145 (yards). My daughter was laughing when the unit would say, "one-hundred twenty yards." It actually became a fun game to play, where we would visually see a 140ish number, and then try to subtract the 20 yards necessary to beat the GC2 to the punch. Fun times, but not so "funny"; considering I just paid thousands of dollars for this thing... I even hit the flag once on a dead straight looking shot (off a bounce), where the GC2 said I "faded" the ball, and my carry distance was "121 yards." The "side angle" on that shot was 2.2L, and "side spin" was 2049R.

As eluded to in the last sentence of the previous paragraph -- the "side spin" and "side angle" measurements were off too. For example: On shots where the ball went dead straight, the GC2 had me starting left anywhere from 2.2 - 4.8 degrees, and spinning right around 1000. This (spin & angle numbers) could have been an alignment thing, but the distances were, without a doubt -- off by a large margin. Oh, and almost forgot... Launch angles were consistently measured between 32-34 degrees, and ball speed was consistently measured in the low to mid 90's. Interestingly, the "backspin" numbers were far less (in the 3,500 range) than the "longer" 7 iron averaged in the garage.

Anyways, so much for the "indoor effect." There's no doubt in my mind that this unit is giving false numbers.

[wbond]

At least you know now the unit is faulty and you can tell Foresight how it was tested. It'll be interesting to hear what they have to say about what would cause this.

[goatbarn]

How do you visually verify where a ball lands at the range?

Is it an inclined range where you can actually tell depth behind/front of sign/marker?

It's not that easy to accurately tell whether your ball carried in front of the marker by 3 yards or 15 yards, especially from face on, and not from a third party, off to the side.

And side angle/spin is well within reasonable for what appears to be a straight shot. Seeing a 2.2* push or pull is not possible to discern from 0* by any normal, casual, observing.

Try the calibration tool and hit some on a course where you are in the fairway and you hit the green. Laser the pin, and then step off the distance from your ball mark to the pin.

Also, never seen backspin numbers posted...if you're crazy outside the "normal" parameters for spin based on ball speed/launch angle, GC2's internal ball flight algorithms will be off, maybe quite off, I don't know.

Remember the GC2's readout is for sea level, no wind, about 75* temp, 50% humidity, flat carry, if I remember correctly, so any major differences from those values also screws the numbers to reality.

[Danielwt]

Hi Goatbarn...thx for the reply... To answer your question(s):

I live on a golf course. At our range, each flag sits in the center of a small elevated green (about 15 yards in diameter). These greens are elevated from the driving range's fairway; to be level with the hitting area (in between these greens, and the hitting area -- the entire driving range slopes away from the hitting area for drainage purposes). Our range finders also have the ability to account for any differences in elevation between hitting area and landing area (there is no significant difference in elevation between the two).

With that said: if you hit and stick a green (technically, for the sake of this post, just hitting the green will allow us to very accurately estimate carry distances), you can be assured that the ball is within 7-8 yards of the flag (regardless of where within the green it lands); this, since the flag sits directly in the center of a 15 yard circle (meaning ~7.5 yards to the perimeter in any direction).

When my balls hit the front of the green, I know -- for certain -- that they are short of the 143 yard mark (for the particular flag I hit with the laser range finder today), but no shorter than 136 yards (143 - 7 = 136). The same principles apply to a long shot (that hits the back of the green, and bounces over). I used a 9 iron so that I could visually see whether, or not, the shots carried pin-high/short/long, within acceptable accuracy of the naked eye (this would obviously be harder for a 3 iron).

Even if my eyes are off, it is still very clear to see whether, or not, I hit the green; and then, whether I was short of the flag, or long... Thus, it is very easy to discern the fact that my balls were landing much further than the GC2 was reading. Remember, the GC2 was giving me 121 yards, when I was - at the very least - carrying 136.

Backspin numbers were posted for my garage session(s), as well as on the range. 7 iron was in the ~8,000 range, and 9 iron was about half of that. I don't know what this means, however, so your guess is as good as mine. Oh...and one more thing... Launch angles (indoor & out) seemed very high..., but again - I have no clue how to read the numbers; I just know where my balls land..

Hope that answers your questions...

[gene438]

I wonder if you would not be better off to go and take your unit to someone who has another system that is trusted to be accurate....then hit balls and let the two systems measure the exact same shot and see what variance you get.

No doubt in my mind, after reading everything you have done, that your unit is off. But, you need to find another unit to measure against so that when you try the various "fixes" or calibrations, etc you will have some way to measure your variance that you are comfortable with.

I feel your frustration and it would be driving me up the wall too.....but realize, you will get this worked out and you will be thrilled once you do......hang it there.

[SwingLeft]

Here is the 7i data you requested. FYI, I am left-handed so the data is backwards for you. I hope it helps.

[Mxwoodman]

This from Goatbarn is very important:

Remember the GC2's readout is for sea level, no wind, about 75* temp, 50% humidity, flat carry, if I remember correctly, so any major differences from those values also screws the numbers to reality.

Not sure where you live but others have had distance issues and one option is to take the GC2 to Foresight and show them the results you are getting, but you should just call Foresight support and see what they can do and they have been very helpful on every issue I had and very good at taking my money

[Danielwt]

Thanks for pointing that out. My environmental conditions are on par with ideal conditions, so nothing listed should present any issues. I'll be calling Foresight within a week or so if this can't be resolved through the forums.

I think posting this sorta' thing on these forums is a good thing. It allows people with similar problems to put their minds together and leverage the help of people with similar interests. Sometimes these companies are so wrapped up in the perceived perfection of their products, that they refuse to accept the notion there may actually be issues. I don't know yet how Foresight will approach this ordeal, but I'm extremely grateful that you all are willing to take the time to offer advice. Thanks again for the reply!

[col forbin]

I think most people are correct in that you should call Foresight tech support and tell them about your observations. Support has always been very helpful for me and they may have had other units do the same thing. They may ask you to send the unit back, then they will recalibrate it before they send it back to you. It is a pain because it is a new expensive system, but like others have said, you will be happy with it when the problem is solved.

[Danielwt]

I plan on calling them after I hook this thing up to a computer and download/upgrade anything/everything deemed necessary. I don't want to waste their time if it's a simple fix. I assumed the unit would be good to go out of the box, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. If it worked properly, I would probably take my time installing the software (since I have no real current desire for simulation), but now that I don't have a choice - I guess I'll just have to move forward with the computer side of things.

One of the major reasons (probably THE major reason) I haven't installed the software yet, is because I use a mac (I always swore I'd never join the apple cult, but I'm glad I did, lol...). I was kinda' hoping that the out-of-the-box capability would allow me to get in some good practice (with the ipad app), then when boredom set in - I would install and use the FR1 driving range & courses that my purchase came with.

Anyways, I agree with you... I'll be calling them within a week or so, but first I need to get my hands on a capable laptop...

[RCorsa]

I've noticed the same thing with my new unit (GC2 with HMT using FSX) I need to adjust about one club length for my distance at the course (i.e. If I were to hit 7i on the gc2 id play a 8i on the course). My suspicion was that is related to the ball. I.e. Tour balls have lower spin and greater distance to the build of the ball etc but I don't see how the GC2 can tell that? I think its just looking at ideal numbers based on what it sees at contact with the dimples of the ball. I'm not sure this is totally the explanation but was just my guess. At first it really screwed me up on the course as I was sailing past the green by 10-15 yards with all my shots but now I just account for it. Sure it kind of sucks but I still love it...

[Danielwt]

It's not the ball... I've tried all of the major tour balls, as well as a handful In the regular guy category. There are subtle differences with my irons, but no major effect on distance (per the GC2).

Your post makes three of us (recent buyers), all with the same issues pertaining to distance. This is looking more and more reassuring, while so not much, all at the same time, lol...

What version do you have? Mine and Guest are both 4.0.0.15

[col forbin]

I know you guys have the lastest firmware for the GC2, but I am still running the 3.7.0.0 I believe and it works well. I use the golf club as well, so I never immediately feel the need to upgrade the firmware. Glad I didn't especially since they rolled it out about 2 months ago. Scary that one of you is getting readings well short of normal distance and the other has to compensate and club down on a real course. Leads me to believe that something may be up with the newest batch of units or possibly the newest firmware.

[mthunt]

I'm using 3.5.1.1. Works fine

[RCorsa]

Yah I'm running the same thing. My point about the ball is that the GC2 calculates numbers based on the dimples of the ball right at the moment of impact. However if the unit was designed based on algorithm from balls years ago and newer balls travel farther then the unit would always be low? It can't tell if you are using a 2016 tour ball optimized for distance or a crappy old ball from a decade ago? Anyway. If you find an answer I'd love to find out.

[Danielwt]

I hear what you're saying... Interesting thought process, and definitely something to consider...

The only wrench I'll throw in is this: the only people seeming to have current issues with significant distance inaccuracies are those of us with the new version. The guys / gals on here with the older versions are completely satisfied with the accuracy of their GC2's. I'll experiment with balls that are a few years old though, just in case... I'm never one to say never (<<<< except that time, lol)...

[mthunt]

Where do you live?

[Danielwt]

mthunt -- Northeast US. Philadelphia area.

[chudiddy]

Danielwt Sent you a PM!!