An open letter to Foresight

[penrose]

I believe this is legal, because it is NOT illegal. It is there product and they can do what they want. However, it is not common in car industry because of govt regulations. I know many complain about govt regs and I agree there are a lot of bad ones...but there are a lot of good ones. You think credit cards on their own say you do not have to pay anything back if your card is stolen...no that is the man holding to them to that standard. It does not work that way for business cards....only consumer cards.
Is this a dumb idea...I think so...it shows they do not really believe in their product, but then again flightscope does it so they can too without much damage.

[Bigmean]

This is truly a disappointing business decision that I hope is looked at and considered and revoked. I did get a gc2 from golfsmith and have only heard great things about their service. I also own a business and I understand that now a ton of these are on the street and they probably have a huge influx of service. This should be met with just letting everyone know the return times will be long, and be HAPPY to have an influx of service work that can be charged a "retail" price as oppposed to whatever GS had worked out with them as a major client. The original points are all valid and and I would like like to stress like the original poster, everyone here seems to be rational and not throwing a fit but being quite reasonable in calling this what it really is, a knee jerk reaction of extortion.

If if it was $100 to cover putting you in their system, I don't think anyone would mind, make $100 an dthen repair money. $500 is a really greedy move and can only be perceived as ugly. Considering their profit on those $500 flashes has to be through the roof, this should be seen as a great income boost for them as I am sure by far this will be what most people need.

There have been a lot of logical and well thought out and intelligent comments on this and I hope their president is reading. I purchased mine before this was put into effect, I would hope,they at least have the courtesy to allow for purchases made before they changed their policy to be grandfathered in because this would have effected my purchase. With skytrack and tech getting cheaper, I would think the last thing the current leader in this field would want to do is throw their middle finger up at a new and large civilian customer base. Here is how that plays out, everyone that has one feels very slighted, tells friends (Look, skytrak and others are only going to get better, and arrogance of leaders in fields thinking they will always be on top always leads to their downfall) mixed feelings about it and the friends don't make the leap for a gc2 and choose something else. Conversely, one of the reasons I pulled the trigger is because until this, I heard great things about foresight as a company and felt really good about them and am happy to pay the higher service costs, just like I am happy to take my car to the dealership for work instead of Joe blow.

So maybe forsight wants nothing to thing to do with retail units out there, but I would have to think that in any business the more product you have, the better you support it, the more service money you get and the more new units you sell based off of all these factors that businesses like mine work for years at to build that brand and perception. Something like this eradicates years of effort to build the perception of forsight I had from talking with people 3 weeks ago when I got mine, vs what I have been hearing now. Any way you slice it, there was a chance to not be greedy, take $100 or whatever processing fee that no one would complain about even if it is a little tacky, it is understandable if you are created as a customer linked to unit as that has an office cost, and make money on all these repairs and tune ups, just let everyone know it may take a long time to see your unit again since so many just hit the street. There was a much better way to handle this from a business standpoint, and what is funny is that what would be less money to them short term is something that would end up being the long term better decision for company profits. If this is not changed or amended, Every time a person asks the question "do I go for a gc2 or ........." this black eye will come up....and at a time when other options and technology is only catching up this just seems like a super poor knee jerk business reaction. More units means more exposure to more potential buyers and more sales and more service cash flow and on and on....it is literally how businesses grow and make more money, and for management to purposefully stifle and strangle that and with an act that comes off as pissy, INSTEAD of making lemonade and trying to be adaptive and capitalize on the new market situation really quite frankly means everyone in their company that makes these decisions needs to look in the mirror and evaluate just what they are doing that is making the company grow and prosper. This is a baffling lack of market adaptation.

To be clear, I am not butt hurt because I have one and now need to deal with forsight and may end up being extorted by them for $500. I am in bed with companies that can do many zeros worse to me, but they never would pull something like this relatively speaking, and if they did, the blowback would be from all businessses in bed with them....this really is baffling. And for anyone from foresight reading this, for what it is worth, I may have only minored in business, but I have built a multi million dollar company from more or less the ground up, and it sounds like some of the people posting like the OP are not exactly business dummies, and frankly this decision is the least creative, least long term lucrative, and least brand strengthening path you could have chosen with how to deal with the amount of your units hitting the street. I run my company how I see fit, and foresight certainly can do the same, but if I am part of the foresight family now, and potentially an hmt buyer (yeah, how many of those sales are shot with this middle finger to new owners??) I would hope your board looks itself in the mirror and holds themselves accountable.

Some last free advice, rather than this, you should have ran a temporary discount on the hmt system because you have a slew of guys in your units for 4-5 grand and could have killed it in volume sales of hmt add ons, or run a special on fsx, or get agggresive with getting your new clients to WANT to give you money and actually be business savvy. so many ways for a company to capitalize on this, and yet this was the chosen path? Increadible really.

I really hope someone important at foresight has taken has taken the time to read what I took the time to thoughtfully express. I am part of the foresight family now, I want to see it thrive.

[aeroburner]

I have not participated yet on this conversation as I was in the trenches on this situation with 4 GC2 in there shop that were delivered to them before Thanksgiving these have all been now registered and refurbished and sent back to me. Discussions are still ongoing with upper management and yes they are monitoring the forum and a lot of the options that Big Mean has given have already been given to them by me to take into account of what I also feel are not best for consumer but understand there position, I do know that I will be talking with them again Monday and they are wanting to do right by there customer and will be making some decisions in 2016 to give some options, I hope that they do listen and discuss what would be the best for everyone. I can say this they do want to have good relations with all of us and are willing to reach out to all and discuss, they have discussed what they are planning to role out in 2017 and I would say this, if your wanting to buy a used GC2 in the future wait something is coming. Foresight did a good job for me and i appreciate there hard work over the last week was extremely stressful as they could have put me over the ringer and did me dirty but they did not which I would say to all here give this a minute and this will all get figured out they do value there customers and they expressed this to me and I wanted to let everyone know this.

[bionicboogerboy]

I have just a couple of points. Won't this drive people more to the Skytrak? Now people searching for a used GC2 that will eventually purchase software, batteries, flash and other accessories will just say screw it and buy a Skytrak.

This will also create a secondary market for Foresight accessories. Now GC2 owners who are "registered" owners will be selling batteries and flash to people who are not willing to pay the $500 fee. I can see the conversation now.

Foresight sales rep: "Gee Bob, you need another flash already? That flash is rated for over a million flashes and you have only had it a month."

Bob: "Yea...What can I say? I like to hit a lot of balls...I'll take 2."

[kaaayelll]

They apparently don't understand that the buyers of used units are not the same as buyers of new units. So, instead of getting consumers into the fold - customers who will require service and may trade up at some point as they develop affinity and loyalty toward the product - they push them to a different maker. Silly. Almost makes me wonder if they're trying to kill GS's ability to sell them so they can buy them back on the cheap, refurb, and sell them. Still short sighted.

Here's a little story for you Foresight execs who might be reading: A Mercedes dealer made a short-term decision against me once upon a time. I was a few years out of college and doing pretty well. I had a car on order for a year and a half. They couldn't tell me when it was coming in, couldn't tell me, couldn't tell me. Then, they called me out of the blue to say my car was in. I said ok, but I need a couple weeks to sell my car (offensive trade-in offer). They said, you have to pick it up by the end of the week or we're selling it. I told them to keep their car. Seven BMWs later, we're as happy as can be.

[kaaayelll]

aeroburner, are you talking about the GCQ coming out? If so, they're going to be $18k with club data, $10k without, and they'll only sell to customers who have bought a new GC2 from them. The only positive is that they're going to allow those owners to trade in their GC2 for 95% credit toward the GCQ.

[FaultyClubs]

IMO it's despicable behaviour. And it comes down to personal ethics, it's not a company doing this it's real people. Having sold one's soul to the almighty $$ what's left when you look in a mirror at night???

And even in the cut-throat business sense, if every encounter builds a brand and reputation ransoming a few hundred bucks from the poor guy unlucky enough to need Foresight just doesn't seem like the best policy.

I have a used GC2 and I'm scared to use it for fear it will need supplies or fail and I'll have to deal with Foresight with their usury business practices. If not this, I'm sure they'll come up with some other crazy plan to ransom money from me. As soon as there is real competition I'll switch. If for nothing else it'll be for peace of mind.

W'e're not people, we're ATM machines.

[Point280]

aeroburner, are you referring to the GCQ that's in the works for 2017? I'm not so sure telling people to hold off on a GC2 at this point is prudent advice, especially with the flood of units hitting the market right now. Unless there's something forthcoming in-line with the price of the current GC2; the rumors here are we're talking $16k to $18k for the new unit. My guess is that's not including FSX nor FR1. So $17.5k on the lower end of that spectrum? Maybe for those currently looking at an HMT/GC2 combo, but a far cry from the cost of a good used GC2 deal -- even WITH this new transfer fee... Perhaps we'll all have to wait for the "Show" in January to find out. My guess is the big players are looking to compete (market share) with Trackman. Flightscope has a new unit coming out (X3) and it's rumored to be released at around $18k. Sounds about the right price point of the top end units from the leading companies.

I don't agree with this new practice. The transfer fee is pure greed. Buyers of used units are at their mercy to a degree, as it is... Here's my two cents worth:

This practice is directly in-line with the current policies of Flightscope and Trackman. I would encourage all to investigate for themselves. It doesn't mean that Foresight has to jump on the bandwagon. They have an opportunity to do right by their customers. Old and new. A new owner of a used unit is a new customer. I purchased my unit used, and I subsequently purchased their FSX software. Profit, they wouldn't have otherwise seen. Let them not lose sight of this opportunity to impress this very niche, but growing community. MAKE OUR COMMUNITY GREAT AGAIN!!! 😎

Lastly, there have been a few good posts on here about repairing $400 flash units for $10 plus a little handy work... Battery packs can be rebuilt by places like Batteries Plus for a much lower price than the FS retail for a new pack. These are options that will no doubt be explored in great detail now, I'm sure. The threat of a voided warranty and costly expenses (on units out of warranty anyway) don't sound that intimidating at this point... not with a $3000 makeover on used units that's been foretold of here in these posts! It'll only take a few success stories with these work-arounds and people will forego all but major repairs, which will hurt their bottom-line whether they wanna look that closely at the future or not. Maybe one of their better "Techs" will see the light, jump ship, and start his/her own lucrative business repairing units units at a fraction of the cost! Could happen! I might even invest in that kickstarter!

[aeroburner]

GCQ has nothing to do with this what i am saying is buy a used GC2 and see what happens, foresight will have an announcement coming soon and if your to impatient to wait for it buy away. everything everyone is saying talk away your repeating exactly what i have been saying to foresight for a week to upper management, from a 30 day buy in for registration to all these new owners or previous owners at a discounted price. the potential of revenue for FSX and HMT to price difference to buy flashes and batteries for registered to non registered owners plus revenue for repairs and calibration its all been said and its been said to Foresight not rantings on a thread hoping to be heard. I have dealt with my issue paid the money got the units refurbished and I am now moving on case closed as this will be hopefully the last time i comment on this thread as the last week of crap I have dealt with i want to put behind me. See you on the tournament and yes I will be playing on my beloved PROTEE and yes my GC2 will also be used on occasion

[Point280]

Wasn't trying to be offensive. Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like you've done right by some people here with the units you acquired from GS. I'm glad someone actually have Foresight's ear. And if it were my company, I'd keep my finger on the pulse of this forum and others. Despite my rants, I love my unit. I'm actually anxious to see what they're gonna bring to market next.

[Ironstrokes]

GCQ has nothing to do with this what i am saying is buy a used GC2 and see what happens, foresight will have an announcement coming soon and if your to impatient to wait for it buy away.

Haha tease, what did they say?

[Ironstrokes]

Was big in the thought process of thinking on getting a gc2 recently and changing from my skytrak. But after reading all this, no chance for sure right now until I hear this is changes....if they ever do.....or if what aero seems to be hinting at is really that good to give some confidence to the customer base again.

Also the more and more I read about these 18k new machines coming out is just making me appreciate my skytrak more and more now. Pretty much the same spin info for like a tenth of the price. Crazy

[Point280]

I should also add that people like me, who never thought they'd spend the money I did on my GC2, might be future GCQ purchasers. And we might just purchase new, because we were so impressed with the way we were treated as part of the aforementioned Foresight "family". Especially if the resale on our used GC2 units maintained the high residual value (as they have) due to their incredible accuracy and outstanding customer service! See how that works Foresight? Novel idea I know, but you might just stand to make a lot more money in the long run... And we all know there's plenty of profit built into the existing flashes, batteries, cases, etc., etc. Those aren't one-off purchases. Heck, the profits from the HMT stickers alone can probably support a small city in a 3rd world country annually. Bottom line is we pay to play. I get it. I personally don't see the Skytrak as a threat to any of the "bigger players"; quite the opposite. It's a fantastic unit. And for many, more $ than they ever thought they'd spend... Instead, I see Skytrak as a gateway to the GC2 , ES-16 & others. Many, many posts indicating folks who started with ST, then purchased more expensive units. Likewise, used GC2s are gateway products to HMTs and GCQs, and their associated accessories. Been there and done that.

[bm11]

To everyone sending me supportive PM's and visitor messages, thanks a bunch! My goal in this is to get Foresight to see the error of their ways, which I fully believe this to be. There have been a TON of good perspectives in this thread, please keep them coming. I took the time to organize my thoughts after my knee jerk post, with the goal of not only making this public to potentially warn any future new or used GC2 customers (it effects both,) but getting enough momentum for Foresight to correct their stance while there is still time for them to save face.

[gene438]

I do wish those that took the plunge and bought a used unit good luck. It's a hell of a lot of money and I feel your pain. I do wish for the sake of the industry that Foresight would take a lesson from ProTee on the value of customer service, commitment to the industry, and the general long view of the business.

After my used purchase of my ProTee,

1)3 emails on lost license numbers and setting up new acccounts
2)2 emails after new computer upgrade and having to set up new license
3)guessing 6-10 emails on installation and tweaking system
4)Countless posts on this forum on how to use the system plus using TGC
5)setting up tournament website and growing this community
6)5 or 6 upgrades to ProTee interface
7) 2 upgrades of TGC
8) Commitment to lifetime licensing with no upgrade fees, etc

Total charges from ProTee = $0

Hands down the best support and greatest commitment to the sim industry and community by any vendor.

Thanks ProTee

[Boo Radley]

Sure seems like Foresight is trying to deter people from buying a used unit?? Value of their product will only decline, If and when there are options to buy another system, they will lose business. You can see what is happening in this forum. Buy a used unit and need a new flash? ? BOOM $1000.