all in one simulator or build my own for my bar and restaurant?

[Willie Vader]

I am looking to add 4 golf sims in a space next to my bar and restaurant that has been open for 7 years. Quite a few people have stated that 30-50k per simulator is absolutely not necessary and in fact a good way to outspend the possibilities of making it work. What in your opinion is the best simulators for a business idea like mine with an already profitable restaurant and bar? Is it Trugolf ($22,000 each) or the higher priced ones like HD or Aboutgolf. Or should I build them with pieces available and buy the screen, projector, and such separately and have a local do the structure build?

[Stonebattle]

As a business owner, I would guess you may not have a lot of time for a do a DIY project. Even with hired help. I have not played on any of the three choices you mention above, although I have seen demonstrations of them, nice. I have played on Full Swing, Foresight GC2, and Bo golf simulators. I was not impressed with Full Swing or Bo golf from an accuracy standpoint, but I thought all three provided a reasonable golf experience. From an accuracy stand point, the GC2 was a standout. The GC2 may allow more of a DIY setup opportunity. Make sure you have a good permanent shield for the GC2, buy a good commercial grade screen and a projector with HD and 3000 LM plus output. The enclosure is easily a DIY project with 1 in EMT and heavy duty net or drapes. Make sure you have enough ceiling height.

[Stonebattle]

Need a right and left setup.

[StuartG]

Most sim software doesn't support more than one sensor at a time. You could have separate left and right hand bays - but then leftys and rightys couldn't play together.

[Stonebattle]

I thought it was that way as well, although I saw one setup at, I think it was Golfsmith. Anyway, I was told it worked fine.

[aja]

Willie, don't want to rain on your parade but have you truly gauged the market? I know of one failed bar that was promoting it's golf sim, one golf simulator operation that is just scraping by, if it's still in business at all, an at least one forum member who stayed in business only a short time running his own simulator business.

Better forum topic could be "Does anybody know of a business which added a golf sim and didn't regret it?"

If you have been in business for 7 years in the hospitality business you're doing something right. Don't mess with success!

[DFDubb]

Willie, don't want to rain on your parade but have you truly gauged the market? I know of one failed bar that was promoting it's golf sim, one golf simulator operation that is just scraping by, if it's still in business at all, an at least one forum member who stayed in business only a short time running his own simulator business.

Better forum topic could be "Does anybody know of a business which added a golf sim and didn't regret it?"

If you have been in business for 7 years in the hospitality business you're doing something right. Don't mess with success!

I have to agree. If you wanted to add a bay so a few loyal patrons and yourself could enjoy, that's one thing. Adding 4 bays is a horse of a different color and I'd be very cautious. Every commercial SIM business, be it stand alone or in addition to a business (bar/restaurant), I've ever seen or heard of has gone out of business.

Lets face it, SIM's are not exactly intuitive and the software can be complex. Are you going to have a full time staffer there to address the issues when patrons can't figure stuff out? No matter what system you choose, none of your customers will have any prior experience with it so you will have to have someone available to get the group all setup and to help them navigate through the game/session. How will you pay this person? How will you keep him/her employed when there is no demand for SIM use?

In my area, we had a cigar (club?) place that had a bar and spent a TON of $$$ putting in 5 Full Swing SIMs. I actually went and used it once before I built my first SIM. The place is still there, but the indoor golf is long gone and I'm sure at a hefty expense to the owner.

[Willie Vader]

I as the owner plus my wife who would be here a ton also, and maybe my son too would be the vast majority of the help needed to assist the players. My pro forma I’ve worked up would be about $10-13K a month in bills. That’s including everything I can think of, even $1,000 a month in unforeseen costs and another $1,000 in marketing.

Do do you think there is just no market for simulators in a wealthy county that has a lot of golfers and cold ass winters? Or do you think people spend a couple $1,000,000-3,000,000 on the whole place and can’t pay the loan.

IMO, almost every picture I’ve seen of a sim bar, it is the exact same setup. Bays on one or both sides and all the seating is very close to the sims. I know me, nor just about anyone else would never go eat or drink there unless golfing. All of them are purely GOLF BARS.

My layout has a foot thick brick wall separating the two spaces with a doorway. I want to keep my past, current, and future patrons that love my bar to not be affected by noise or visuals. But obviously the food and beverages service will reach every player, and often!!!

[andygg1986]

I don't know if you can buy a Foresight GCHawk yet, but it would get you left/right handed play and presumably the accuracy that Foresight is known for. Foresight's courses aren't cheap, but I would bet 95% of customers would be more than happy if you bought a few famous ones and maybe the ones that are located near you (not sure exactly where you are). In general, Foresight's products hold their value better than most high end systems, so if it didn't work out you could recoup some of your money. I also would start with one or two bays and put in a putting/chipping green in the rest of the space until you have more demand than one or two bays can meet. That way people could putt if there was a short wait to get a spot.

As far as the enclosures themselves, I would definitely think that having it built rather than buying a full kit would be the way to go. Par2Pro can work with you to get your screen, side curtains, ceiling protection, flooring, etc all sized correctly and then you could either pay them or a local contractor to install it if you don't want to do it yourself. That's almost certainly going to look better than putting a stand-alone enclosure in a big room.

[StuartG]

My local Golf shop just got a couple of GCHawks 5 days ago - said they were roughly the same cost as the GCQuad's.

[Willie Vader]

[chrispj09]

you guys really don't think theres a market for golf sim business in the off season? I have been thinking about opening a place with a couple sims (maybe trugolf truflight 2 sims). I would think there would be a desire in the north to have winter leagues and regular play. A local place just got a sim and they have been swamped so far.

[Willie Vader]

I know there is. But I’m convinced that too many places make it so only golfers will go there because everyone is surrounded by golf sims and the loud noise of driver hitting balls. You handcuff the place to the label of “That golf bar”.

[Giller31]

I am looking to add 4 golf sims in a space next to my bar and restaurant that has been open for 7 years. Quite a few people have stated that 30-50k per simulator is absolutely not necessary and in fact a good way to outspend the possibilities of making it work. What in your opinion is the best simulators for a business idea like mine with an already profitable restaurant and bar? Is it Trugolf ($22,000 each) or the higher priced ones like HD or Aboutgolf. Or should I build them with pieces available and buy the screen, projector, and such separately and have a local do the structure build?

Hi Willie, I think the bigger question is asking what your business is trying to be or who it's trying to cater to. I have my own indoor facility with 6 HD sims, we are licensed and have a small little menu. We have been open 4 winters. There are other indoor facilities that exist and have been open longer that don't have the bar option. The bar is just one other line of revenue.
The point is, that the business can work. That said, we are indoor golf facility that has a bar. We aren't a bar that has golf sims. It's a distinction because we in essence try to be the business opposite the outdoor golf season. I think if you try to be both, you have a mixed message to patrons. Honestly, if you are in an area with a decent golf community with lousy winter weather, an indoor business can work. It's a grind, it's not easy, but again there are many that have been opened around me for 10+ years that seem to hold their own. I don't know that if a local Boston Pizza had sims it would be worthwhile and work out because, again what are they trying to be and who are they catering to?

From a cost perspective, given the volume of usage, it's better to invest in better quality units versus something intended for home use. Ultimately if there is downtime due to a breakdown, that's lost money for you. HD sims have been very good for us. Their screens are honestly second to none in terms of longevity and we have long drive hitters that practice and hit with ball speeds of 200+MPH. Send me a PM if you want to chat more.

Cheers,
Giller31