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Lighting for impact swing camera high fps

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  • Lighting for impact swing camera high fps

    Looking to start discussion on which lighting people have tried with high fps cameras to take away blur and have clear image of golf swing. About to pull trigger on 2 camera setup and need answers on how many lights is required for clear video

  • #2
    Cameras looking at are ids 3060 model which seems to be universal and can be used with all of the golf analysis software companies. Blackfly cameras which swing catalyst recommends. And beginning to speak with guys at jc video about what they think

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    • #3
      Have you checked out what Swing Catalyst recommends?

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      • #4
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        • #5
          This was swing catalyst suggestion. Add 2 of these showed video with 2 of these in there lower camera option and was too dark for what I was looking for. So two things not sure if there better model camera would drastically improve video. Or just needed to continue adding lights till was bright enough. Also looking for white lights to blend in more with ceiling so doesn't stand out as much. My ceiling height is 9 ft so sure that effects area covered as well

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          • #6
            The only cameras that are going to require less light are monochrome. The sensor construction of color requires 3 times the light vs their monochrome counterparts. It’s important to light the area of focus and the area around the camera. I would think you just need more.

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            • pathfindr
              pathfindr commented
              Editing a comment
              One downside of adding more lights is that too much light may make the room too bright and wash out the projector screen image. I ended up getting cameras with a large low-light image sensor that works great in indoor low lighting.

          • #7
            Please be super careful with lighting and high frame rate cameras. I am living the nightmare right now. Okay, not a nightmare but flicker can become an issue as you get into higher frame rate cameras and lighting. Trackman has some lights suggested non-flicker lights in their camera section of their website, which I should have investigated more before I bought my lighting. I went with LEDs on tracklights - fairly high-end Juno lights, and the flicker is pretty bad once you get above 120 fps. You ideally want DC volt lighting as one of the cheaper options, which are typically photography lights converted from AC to DC (the power cord would be just like a laptop charging cable would have) - some even operate on batteries. Because DC does not operate on an on/off cycle like AC current does, DC lights should not flicker at any fps. The IDS cameras you are looking at max. out at 166fps (correct?), which is terrible for AC lighting. In USA, we operate on a 60hz frequency so if you use AC lighting for swing capture, you must match the 60 hz frequency (e.g. 60, 120, 180 fps, etc.). If you set the IDS 3060 cameras to say 120 fps, you will have almost no flicker with AC lights of any kind since the camera frames are (sort of) matched up against the on/off flicker from AC lighting. But that is limiting your camera's capability - you want max fps ideally. I also have IDS cameras - 3140s which can be set to 220fps but I must stay at 180fps or the flicker becomes nearly unbearable to watch on replay. There are other lighting options but are vastly more expensive than DC photography lights. I read on some photography forums that certain Metal Halide lights work well as they stay somewhat illuminated between on/off cycles ... but most MH options are pricey. My biggest issue with the LED photography lights is the overall 'look' - they look like portable lights which works in many applications but is not ideal for a 'finished' room which mine is (combo theater, video game, sim room). At 180fps, the flicker is acceptable on slow motion replay on Swing Catalyst, so I will stay with the LED setup I have for now. Note: I have about 15 fixtures between 850-1300 lumens each above the hitting area - barely enough for the two IDS cameras I have when there is no daylight involved. So, you do need plenty of light for high fps cameras. Pretty sure TM suggests something like 30,000 lumens at the hitting area which is nearly sunlight level of light!





            Hope this helps!!

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            • LeftyLeff52
              LeftyLeff52 commented
              Editing a comment
              Can you send sample of video clip

            • Carl Johnson
              Carl Johnson commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes - can do. Give me a day or two - still getting my room back together after a bit of concrete work (lowered hitting mat into floor).

            • pathfindr
              pathfindr commented
              Editing a comment
              Look for LED lights with a constant current driver such as this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XG37F14 They won't cause flickering even at high frame rate.

              Also, for camera frame rate. The advertised frame rate is at maximum resolution. For example, for IDS 3060, the max frame rate is 166 fps but that is at the max resolution of 1936 x 1216. If you lower the resolution, you can achieve much higher frame rate. I have no problem recording at 300+ fps if I adjust the resolution. Keep in mind that you will rarely record at the maximum resolution because you will max out the USB port (5Gbps) and start dropping frames. I usually record only at 1440 x 800 or even at 720P at 150fps with my IDS 3060.

          • #8
            I'm determined to find a finished look as well my room is same multi purpose room. And will share results appreciate the feedback. Waiting to speak to guys at jc video they are saying they have the answer.

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            • #9
              Had conversations with a lighting manufacturer I buy some scrap metal from and basically said 30k lumens over kill need to make sure have lighting on all sides of subject(golfer) and have correct lights set up for high fps stuff he went into crazy detail and will be seeing him wednesday. Will share his information after I see him

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              • #10
                Look forward to your updates after speaking with the lighting guy. I have about 15,000 lumens and feel I could use a bit more, although 30k seems a bit excessive to me ... from working with 15k IRL.

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                • #11
                  I use 2 x 300W LED. These lights work great without flickering even at high speed frame rate. They have a constant current LED driver which doesn't cycle on/off like typical LED lights. 2 X 300W LED Light https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XG37F14
                  Last edited by pathfindr; 03-02-2021, 02:48 AM.

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                  • Carl Johnson
                    Carl Johnson commented
                    Editing a comment
                    pathfindr - what cameras are you using with those LED lights? And, what frame rates are they set to? Thank you!!

                  • pathfindr
                    pathfindr commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I was using ELP cameras 720P at 120 fps. I have since upgraded to IDS 3060 using 150fps. See this sample video I just uploaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJNzDFoRx6o The description section has more info on my setup.

                  • Carl Johnson
                    Carl Johnson commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Picture quality is really good actually and no flicker! Fairly dark though - would love to see a little more lumens around you.

                • #12
                  So I did meet with a lighting manufacturer in nj basically said any led light could be flicker free with correct drover in it. Picking up the lights Monday. I am also trying to get cost on some spotlight lights they make with the driver they recommend. Believe it could definitely be something reasonable enough for all of us. Upgraded driver which was told like 50 a light has correct frequency for anything 500fps and lower. Pathfindr your shadows come from where you have lights up on ceiling. I was told need 3 sets of 2 1200 lumens each light and an 20 or 30 degree optic to light up 9ft circle. Makes that blacked out room with clear image of golfer and club. Was told behind front of golfer, back of golfer and down the line for each golfer. Will get driver info for everyone and will show pictures of lights to see what everyone thinks
                  Last edited by LeftyLeff52; 03-05-2021, 04:55 AM.

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                  • Carl Johnson
                    Carl Johnson commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The LED driver is definitely key. Cheaper LED drivers will flicker like heck! Seems that some newer LEDs fixtures are using two DC drivers in the fixture so it must be 120v to the fixture then converts to DC for the light output - not even sure what the 2nd DC driver is for? I am still putting my SIM back together - had concrete floor cut and having carpet re-installed. I will try to get some video clips done this weekend or early next week. From seeing pathfindr's video and clearly no flicker that I can see - makes me pretty upset about my LED fixtures - my flicker (when no sunlight coming in the room) is pretty bad!
                    Last edited by Carl Johnson; 03-05-2021, 09:49 PM.

                • #13
                  What about using 12w led landscape lights with an a/c to DC converter?

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                  • #14
                    That certainly might work - would have to test to ensure the DC Converter's drivers did not cause any flickering. But, some landscaping lights are not cheap so is there any benefit using a landscape light versus a track light with viable drivers?? Trackman seems to suggest Jett04 lights which are indoor track lights. I may try a few of these but they will not work with my Juno tracks so not as easy as just plugging a few in to try - I would have to install all new tracks to try the Jett lights.

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                    • #15
                      I wrote up an article today that may help some folks: https://gunghogolf.com/articles/indo...video-lighting
                      - Ron at GunghoGolf.com - we specialize in TrackMan, FlightScope, Foresight, Uneekor, SkyTrak, Garmin, Bushnell, TGC, and E6 Connect. 512-861-4151 or email hello AT gunghogolf.com.

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                      • pathfindr
                        pathfindr commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Great info! Which dimmer switch are you using?

                      • GungHoGolf
                        GungHoGolf commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Our electrician used a standard dimmer switch from Home Depot. The bulb specs say "Triac" dimmer type should be used.

                      • pathfindr
                        pathfindr commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Hi Ron,
                        GungHoGolf Any chance you can find out the brand or model of dimmer switch you use? I tried a Lutron LED+ Toggler dimmer switch but was getting flickering. Thanks
                        Last edited by pathfindr; 12-22-2021, 10:19 PM.
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