TGC 2017/2018 Winter Tour - Honda Classic

[colinjm18]

Personally I wouldn’t of removed there usernames. Should be named and shamed.

[Shardak]

I think rewinds are needed as the hardware is not 100% accurate. I have had a putt shoot 150 yards off the green before, so its nice to not be penalized for those bad reads.

But if the current system is being this abused then I think we need some changes. Probably the simplest would be to show the rewind stats on the leaderboard. That would probably cure most of the cheaters.

If it is still an issue, then dont allow any rewinds.

[wbond]

Don't get me wrong, I have always been a proponent of keeping rewinds for a blatant hardware issue like you mention above. I did so since I know the ST has limitations and the protee has issues with high flop shots or something, but seeing the stats that mthunt posted, it's clear people are cheating. No two ways about it. You don't have over 50 people using rewinds in that volume to not be cheating.

[FirGir]

So hitting into a lateral water hazard would not count as a rewind because it's not stroke and distance, correct? Until the stroke and distance numbers are out of those totals it was the right call to not include names. Crazy how high the Net totals are this week. And some of the Gross scores of those with handicaps of six and lower...that might be a bunch of stroke and distance "rewinds." I'm not saying there isn't some cheating going on, I'm just considering the three kinds of lies rule, "lies, damned lies, and statistics." Thank goodness I took the week off because I'm wild as hell and knew I'd have at least six balls in the water for the tourney.

[Jwheels9876]

The course was a beast. I went 76-96 and hit like 5 balls into the drink in round 2. Rewinds are an every week issue here. This week there's just the stroke and distance rewinds to make stand out more. Most weeks I peek through the top of the leaderboard and see multiple rewinds that don't add up when you check the scorecards. And lots of them are balls just hit a few yards short or long or left or right of the next one they hit or a foot short of the gimmies range so they take another try. It's a problem that's been going on.

[FirGir]

Bummer. Let me know if you ever want an extra data geek to help clean it up.

[kphdoc]

If its an option, I am definitely in favor of eliminating rewinds or boost in tournaments..apologies to those who cannot swing a driver in their space.

[frodaddy00]

I had zero rewind/mulligans but quite a few water balls so I guess those showed up as rewinds. Honestly I felt some of those should not have been stroke and distance but played it as TGC ruled it anyway.

Count me in the unlucky group that can't hit their driver indoors but I figure it gives me practice with my longer irons

[Ports]

If I had to take as many rewinds as some on the list that mthunt had, I would seriously be looking at my hardware setup. You have something wrong to have that many rewinds

[mthunt]

OK. I should apologize for posting that. I got a lot of messages today and started a fire. I’m not trying to paint this a cheaters tour or anything. I’m not pointing at ProTee. I simply want people to play golf, have fun and not cheat. I find too many. I would never post names.

The script looks for what I look for on recorded shots. It looks for a repeated yardage to the pin. There are only two ways that yardage repeats in recorded shots. 1. Stroke and distance penalty and 2. A Rewind. When I see a repeated number, I check the players score on that hole and compare to the number of shots taken. Think about that for a second. One monitor for the running scorecards, 1 monitor for recorded shots and 1 monitor for the leaderboard. Yes, I have 3 screens on my desk. I need to look at the recorded shots, count the number of tee shots manually in the recorded shots to figure out what hole it’s on then compare the strokes recorded to the scorecard. It’s actually easier to just put all of someone’s recorded shots in a spreadsheet. I’ve sent that spreadsheet to tour players.

Normally there’s under 10 in the suspicious file. I got a steamed when I saw that many. Keep in mind, not 100% positive all are mulligans. Can be water balls put back on the tee.

For those who PM’s me, I replied but you can easily check your own reminded shots or anyone’s and look for a repeated number. If it says “TEE” and “499 yards” twice in a row, look if you had par or more. More likely a water ball, par is a rewind.

[Jwheels9876]

Bad week for the stroke and distance for sure. Ask the guy with the 19 rewinds for his receipt from the pro shop for the 2 dozen balls he had to buy lol.

[FirGir]

The rules of golf are based on a foundation of honesty. It is understandable that frustration would occur when you see that violated. As mentioned, the answers are available to all of us. Thanks mthunt for your commitment and hard work.

[Ports]

I really hope you somehow get compensated for your work. The behind the scenes moderation really isn't appreciated. There's a lot of hours spent policing this tour

[StanMI]

I did not play the tour event this week but I did play the first few holes of course. Greens were tough, fairways were narrow and I sucked. Just another round, lol !!

As to rewinds.

If I play a tournament round and don't finish the round, when I come back I will warm up on the hole where I left off. I thought I read in another post that was ok as long as the last shot was a put to show you were warming up ? If that's NOT ok please let me know. I'd hate to finish my usual T58 and get DQ'ed for cheating !

[mthunt]

I did not play the tour event this week but I did play the first few holes of course. Greens were tough, fairways were narrow and I sucked. Just another round, lol !!

As to rewinds.

If I play a tournament round and don't finish the round, when I come back I will warm up on the hole where I left off. I thought I read in another post that was ok as long as the last shot was a put to show you were warming up ? If that's NOT ok please let me know. I'd hate to finish my usual T58 and get DQ'ed for cheating !

I used to warm up on the first tee. Now I take the extra minute or so to go to a range. Better safe in my mind.

[DirtyGarry24]

mthunt would you mind posting an accurate “rewind” graphic for the week? That first one painted a bad picture of this tour. I’d like to see you post an accurate “rewind” graphic at this point. Seems only right to me.

[Sandbar]

If you look at my recorded shots you will see ALOT of same distance to pin....however they were all due to me forgetting how to swing a golf club and ending up in the drink....multiple times. I am sure that is fairly evident from my score. I am not good enough to say if the ST misreads by a few degrees here or there. Yes every once in a while shots don't go where I think they would go, but I just roll with it since I figure there are a few misreads in my favor...or skulled shots that just aren't picked up at all. I think I have had a total of 2 rewinds since I started playing. Both were when I put my ball on the dot and it read as a shot that went backwards. But in the end it's just for fun and yes I would love to rehit as few shots....but it just for fun and I have hope that others play the same way.

[Wes B45]

I have not used any rewind shots on courses, just on the driving range, but I have found it frustrating on this course and some other courses on the amount of times it gives the stroke and distance penalties on shots that roll off the fairway into the water and does not give a drop option. Sometimes when i think I will get a stroke and distance penalty it gives me a drop and then when i think it should give me a drop, it gives me stroke and distance. I may not understand the rules enough but it does seem excessive sometimes on the amount of stroke and distance penalties it gives for rolling into the water. I know my game is not that great but it sure can be frustrating at times.

[apeppin]

What about capping the rewinds at 2 per round or 2 per tournament? Any more than 2 rewinds and you are DQ'd, no exceptions. I don't think people complain about more than 2 misreads, so if you did get a misread, you have some recourse.

[inorkuo]

if everyone was using skytrak or gc2 I would vote for no rewinds but since there are other simulation hardware systems that need the rewind, it needs to be more transparent. with shot recording, the system should be able to total up rewinds by comparing the total number of shots recorded vs the score at the end of each round. the only thing missing at the moment is gimme putts.

if the leaderboard showed the number of rewinds for everyone and people were required to stream their round to youtube and note their use of rewinds (example: had to use a rewind at 11min 35sec when I placed a ball down and it was read as a 1 ft shot), this issue would go away. streaming to youtube with obs or shadowplay is easy to do and webcams are cheap these days.

is r-motion on the same tour as everyone else? I thought r-motion was supposed to have their own tour like the opti-shot tour.

[Mickey]

If you have a gc2 there is no excuse for rewinds. I had a skytrak a while back - i had phantom shots on several occasions - that's one of the reasons I dumped it .

[R3dlineR6]

I 100% agree with this. I own a GC2 and have never taken a single rewind. People who abuse the system should be banned from the tour, plain and simple.