5% Boost Protee Rules

[FaultyClubs]

...if I boosted my clubs by 5% I don't think it would make my handicap a 1/2 shot better...

You might be surprised. Modern analytics shows club speed is HIGHLY correlated with handicap (> 0.9) with a 5% increase equating to 3-4 point lower USGA handicap.

[Wizard of Coz]

Im thinking you need to have a pretty good swing to hit it long so a big hitter although not guaranteed to be a scorer has a better chance than somebody that can't hit it outside their shadow. ???
So im not surprised. But 3-4 points hmmm. Wizard would take -5% boost if he could guarantee fairway every time.

[Iquinn4]

Idk about that wiz. Not in sim golf. Irl maybe. Not sim

[Iquinn4]

5% boost is cool if the courses we played were 6900-7200 yards but they are like 5500-6300

[shwag33]

You might be surprised. Modern analytics shows club speed is HIGHLY correlated with handicap (> 0.9) with a 5% increase equating to 3-4 point lower USGA handicap.

I would say correlation is not causation in those stats. I think the better golfers have higher ball speeds because they have better swings. In real life you can't just make a +5% yardage improvement without a swing improvement, like the boost in the game. If you just added 5% extra yardage to a 20 handicapper they are just going to hit poorer shots farther.


Wiz, I agree i'd easily take the -5% boost for fairway haha.

[FaultyClubs]

I would say correlation is not causation in those stats. I think the better golfers have higher ball speeds because they have better swings. In real life you can't just make a +5% yardage improvement without a swing improvement, like the boost in the game. If you just added 5% extra yardage to a 20 handicapper they are just going to hit poorer shots farther.


Wiz, I agree i'd easily take the -5% boost for fairway haha.

There's a trap with statistics where most people argue based on existing beliefs and prejudices rather than analysis of the data. To explore causation one needs to look at real data and not make things up. That's why I said you (or anyone) might be surprised. A book like Pro Golf Synopsis has a lot of info for anyone interested in data driven analytics.

[Wizard of Coz]

Is this for a 7400 yard course, 7000 yard course, 6600 yard course 6200 yard course, 5800 yard course. I believe the answers would be different based on total course yardage. Statistics/ data im sure would be different for each course yardage. Plus the course type the hazards the landing areas. Wizard has played courses that are 6000 that played far longer than 6600 yard courses. It depends on what type of play the course dictates.

Real data may be far different for each case as stated above. Wiz doest think a one size fits all . here. Data could be severely flawed. If wizard drops the ball 5 % further off the tee (12yds)his usga hdcp is going to drop 3-4 points. Really?

I will say that my hdcp has gone down outdoors and so has my driver distance. Data says what'?

[Iquinn4]

I would say correlation is not causation in those stats. I think the better golfers have higher ball speeds because they have better swings. In real life you can't just make a +5% yardage improvement without a swing improvement, like the boost in the game. If you just added 5% extra yardage to a 20 handicapper they are just going to hit poorer shots farther.


Wiz, I agree i'd easily take the -5% boost for fairway haha.

So does that mean 5% additional distance to a scratch golfer disproportionately improves scores compared to 5% additional distance to a 15 handicap? Interesting to think about.

[shwag33]

As wizard states, it would depend on the course, lots of factors. I could be wrong, but I'd say the higher handicapper would improve with more distance, because your average golfer probably struggles with forced carries and longer holes. There's more ground to be made up for them. Easier to improve from a 25 index to a 20, than a 5 to a 0.

[shwag33]

There's a trap with statistics where most people argue based on existing beliefs and prejudices rather than analysis of the data. To explore causation one needs to look at real data and not make things up. That's why I said you (or anyone) might be surprised. A book like Pro Golf Synopsis has a lot of info for anyone interested in data driven analytics.

Post some of the data... I've seen the data that shows your average handicap decreases a few index points with a 5% distance increase. That does not mean the distance is the only thing driving the 3-4 index points. To me the data makes sense, but in the context that people with better swings are able to hit the ball farther.

For the purpose of this thread, if I played the same course in TGC 1000 times and my index was 10.0, then you added 5% boost and I played another thousand rounds, I highly doubt my index will be 6 or 7, probably lower but not 3-4 points. On the other hand, if I made improvements to my swing and i started to hit the ball 5% farther than my old swing (without overswinging), I could see being 3-4 index points better.


Look at most golf course ratings with tees around 6000 and 6300 yards. (About the 5% difference). The rating between the two tees is usually around 1 shot, never 3-4.

[FaultyClubs]

The data is readily available from guys like Broadie and Hunt, either their research papers or books. Definitely worth a look, especially for people thinking putter is the most important club in the bag. Driving is where it's at baby!

[shwag33]

The data is readily available from guys like Broadie and Hunt, either their research papers or books. Definitely worth a look, especially for people thinking putter is the most important club in the bag. Driving is where it's at baby!

You really haven't addressed anything I've said other than some guys have data. The data I've found from them doesn't say anything different than what I explained above.

If what you say is correct pretty much all course ratings are wrong.

[FaultyClubs]

Actually I have addressed your (and wiz) comments. Quite adequately IMO. I just haven't done it at a level of abstraction you want. It's a hobby for me not a job so if you say something interesting going forward I'll comment otherwise not.

[Wizard of Coz]

I think most important club
1. Putter
2. Wedge
3. Driver
the max you use driver is 14 times maybe less

[FaultyClubs]

Ya probably most people think that way. But in the past 5 years modern data driven analytics is changing that. Most of the analytics is done at the Tour level though so likely take a while to trickle down to the average amateur. Still, the Pro Golf Synopsis is a good bedtime read although I'd wait for the 2019 version to come out if buying.

[JB3]

Just my 2 cents...

I use a Skytrak for now. I only use boost on the woods / driver as the irons on Skytrak are pretty accurate.

I really do feel that Skytrak users don't get quite the distance that GC2 users get with the driver. I have played on GC2s at indoor golf leagues in my area and they are noticeably longer with my driver and I'm not swinging any different.

Here is a great YouTube video proving that the GC2 is a little more generous than the Skytrak on distance with the driver (and even other clubs):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRXQfZpI58 (Fast forward to about the 7:30 minute mark to see the driver in action)

A couple of the driver tests for a quick summary: (total distance)

GC2: 294 ST: 281
GC2: 281 ST: 275
GC2: 287 ST: 274

There was one drive that the Skytrak slightly outdid the GC2 but the majority was about 2-4% farther in total distance which is consistent with what I see using them outside my Skytrak.

I understand that GC2 users get another 5% over the Skytrak user so they still have the advantage if the Skytrak is indeed a little shorter (proven by the video above). However, I feel like the 5% boost keeps the Skytrak a bit more in line with what I see outside from myself so it's actually a bit more accurate with that little tweak IMHO. (and it strokes my ego)

I am not saying GC2 peeps should not get boost by any means! I'm simply saying that the 5% boost equalizes the Skytrak so that I feel like I'm playing a more accurate / realistic round of golf which is more important to me than just the competitive aspect.

This, I use the 5% on all woods. I don't really play the tour as I play daily with a friend competitively so we are in the same boat either way. It is frustrating to hit good drive 10 and 15 yards short every time though, and struggling to hit a good 250 with the wood sometimes. I think for Skytrak the boost is needed. Sounds insignificant from a distance stand point but its not. We also play 6800 to 7400 yard course so its important we get the distance we hit.

[simmb]

I don't use boost normally but after reading all the discussion I did try it as a one off the other week. Had my best result for a long while and if Mr Bond hadn't shot the lights out on his final round I would have had a net joint victory with Bradford. My golf club recently installed a GCHawk and lets just say I am already looking to sell my Skytrak and move onto a GC2. The difference in distance I get is about 20-30 yards on my driver and it always picks up the correct shape unlike my Skytrak.

[wbond]

Sorry, had one of those crazy rounds where I was sticking irons, got lucky chipping in and made some putts. Golf gods brought me back to reality last week though, three triples and two doubles. On one single hole, i was 7 over for the three rounds.

[simmb]

Nothing to apologise for, that was a great round. Golfing gods give and they take away, I must owe them a lot becasue they keep taking from me at the moment.

[JB3]

so when do they give, is there a list? I am also on the GC2 track squirreling little monies here and there, it will happen. Nothing against ST but it has some flaws for high speed hitters for sure.

[Cklguy2013]

1. Many people playing in these tournaments have no idea what boost is and aren’t playing with it.

.

I agree 100% with this comment, and have no intention of using boost whether it's permitted or not. For me I want to see the sim distances as close to my IRL distances as possible.

[mthunt]

I agree 100% with this comment, and have no intention of using boost whether it's permitted or not. For me I want to see the sim distances as close to my IRL distances as possible.

So just a question but what would you do it your sim didn’t match real life? Let’s say you want to match real life and you carry a wedge 125 and its reading 130 in your sim. Would you want to adjust or just go with 130 in the sim? Or, if you had more side spin or less back spin. Adjust or go with it? I’m curious. I go with what my GC2 gives me and it’s pretty close but what if it wasn’t. What’s your preference?

[Wizard of Coz]

That is a great point isn't it mthunt?
Cklguy what's your opinion on that?

[Cklguy2013]

We're both lucky that we have the GC2 so it's pretty close, although there are definitely times that the sim distances are different from the GC2 reading, but I just take that for what it is. I may hit a PW 130 in real life but in real like sometimes it will only go 125 or whatever because of wind, temperature, elevation, humidity, etc. So for me and this is just me, I accept what the sim reading gives me as it is close enough, but to answer your question if your system was giving you distances that were consistently under by 5% or more I'd be in favour of using adjustments.

[JB3]

I tried the 5 % on irons and other than silly fun we removed it, for ST its a real thing. Everyone should want the IRL distance because that the only way to dial in and play good. Good heavens i dont need to learn two games of distance and clubs I can perfect the first one.

[Iquinn4]

I just feel like if your distances aren’t what they are IRL then go ahead and play and practice with boost. When it comes to competition, play with what you have to make the playing field fair. Yes I have SkyTrak but I’m not complaining about the chipping which is inferior to gc2. If I want to spend another couple thousand on gc2 I can but if I don’t then I shouldn’t complain. Play with what I have. Should force me to play more conservatively and not miss short sided. My driver ball speed is over 150 so am I losing some yards? Probably but I’m going to play with the equipment I have in the most fair way. Just feel boost is gaming the system. If you have gc2 you really don’t need boost, but then again I don’t think anyone should.

[Cklguy2013]

Starts to make wonder if adjustments are allowed based on the type of system one has, for example if you're using a GC2 not adjustments, if a skytrak such and such. I would think there would be enough users of the various systems to be able to set the standard for that system.

[Wizard of Coz]

Depends on the shot type. If I drive a low wedge shot tgc carry is around 5 yards furtherthan gc2 screen says.

[mthunt]

Then it becomes if they have it everyone should have it then we have it too to be fair. This is exactly why 5% and straight putting is allowed for everyone. It's 2019. Can't discriminate.