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**Cklguy2013** · 10-24-2016, 04:49 PM

I've never really paid much attention to the swing speed numbers on protee, what is important is ball speed, that's what you want to get dialed in.

**aja** · 10-24-2016, 05:23 PM

Haven't heard that complaint before. Try ProTee Support. They will have a better idea of what might be happening. I'd disagree with the notion that it isn't important to know your swing speed. You can better judge how well you are hitting the ball knowing both the swing speed AND the ball speed. They are linked.

**Bnorman58** · 10-24-2016, 06:25 PM

what are you using before to determine your clubhead speed? If it is a gc2 at golfsmith on that app, it is derived clubhead speed, not actual. It is based on 1.45 smash factor which is a perfect hit. If you are more in the 1.35 range, your clubhead speed is actually higher than that will tell you.
Like cklguy says, I would pay more attention to ball speed for apples to apples. I think the clubhead speed is accurate on my protee.

**FaultyClubs** · 10-24-2016, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Cklguy2013 View Post

I've never really paid much attention to the swing speed numbers on protee, what is important is ball speed, that's what you want to get dialed in.

You are missing one of the key advantages the Protee has over the Skytrak/GC2.

Using only ball speed can ingrain a bad habit or cause you to reject an improvement.

Example, assume you have grooved a 100 mph swing and hit the ball 150 mph. But you are looking for more so make a change and get a 140 mph ball speed. No good, so you reject it. But unknown to you the swing speed actually increased to 105 mph. You think your swing is worse...but it is actually faster. The difference is the new swing isn't hitting the sweet spot as well. If you had grooved your new swing the ball speed would have become 158 mph. But you'll never know because you rejected it!

Another example, say you are distance challenged and spend hours trying to swing faster. But maybe the real problem is a low smash factor. Instead of swinging harder all you had to do was hit the sweet spot. A completely different problem than you thought you had.

Smash factor is important. It can tell you a lot of useful things.

**Cklguy2013** · 10-24-2016, 07:32 PM

I don't dispute that knowing both proper club speed and ball speed would be useful, however in my particular case I'm more interested in ball speed (and I'm pretty sure that's what Protee uses in its calculations). In my case, I can tell instantly by feel if I've hit my shot solid or not, say a 122 mph 7 iron versus a 110 mph one, and Protee serves to confirm that feeling. I do realize that ball speed is the result of the application of clubhead speed, so increasing clubhead speed would seem like a worthwhile endevour, however, I've never had much luck trying to increase clubhead speed, actually is seems to improve more when I'm not trying to improve it, if that makes sense.

But all that being said I can see how many would want both and there isn't anything wrong with that.

**Ronsc1985** · 10-24-2016, 10:13 PM

Anyone who has played some golf and whose hand nerves are still working can tell exactly where on the clubface the ball has made contact. Being able to discern this pretty much eliminates any requirement to know your clubhead speed.

The only thing the ball knows is how fast it is leaving the clubhead. That plus it's launch angle and the spin determines where the ball goes. This is physics 101. Emphasis on clubhead speed comes from a time when that was all one could measure. The equipment to do so was/is inexpensive.

Spending any time worrying about small changes in smash factor is a fools errand simply because you are taking a ratio of two numbers and as such small tolerance differences make a larger difference in the result. Example with a 1% measurement error in both you can have a smash factor anywhere from .99/1.01 to 1.01/.99 or.98 to 1.02. So an actual smash factor of 1.45 could be computed to be anything from 1.421 to 1.479.

**FaultyClubs** · 10-25-2016, 04:53 AM

I wouldn't be so glib in dismissing either club speed or smash factor.

There are also lots of variables affecting smash factor. The angle between the club face and club path, the COR between the club AND ball, the impact point with respect to the club head's Center of Gravity, the mass ratio of ball and club head plus maybe others I've forgotten. And these aren't all linear relationships either. Suggesting anyone can determine that by "feel" is just silly. Trackman has many cases of Tour Pros (men, ladies and long distance hitters) who were unwittingly working with less than ideal smash factors. And these are people at the top of their profession. Smash factor isn't only for drivers either, how many complain about not being able to spin their wedges? There is an optimum number, even for wedges.

Plus there are *so* many variables affecting ball speed it is impossible to derive club speed with any accuracy.

And I know for a fact normal people can't tell "exactly" where the ball makes contact with the club face. My buddies and I have tested that very thing using impact powder. And more than one of them are scratch golfers.

I would recommend everyone measures their smash factors on a Trackman and decide for themselves how far off they are from LPGA/PGA values and how much they could improve by optimizing the numbers.

Stripping away all the hyperbole, you did have one factual comment though. Smash factor as a ratio of two numbers is sensitive to accuracy of readings. Plus measuring club head speed isn't so easy (it varies between heel and toe, as well as from high to low on the face). So best to use caution when obtaining smash factor numbers, especially if one doesn't know how they are obtained.

**Ronsc1985** · 10-25-2016, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by FaultyClubs View Post

I wouldn't be so glib in dismissing either club speed or smash factor.

There are also lots of variables affecting smash factor. The angle between the club face and club path, the COR between the club AND ball, the impact point with respect to the club head's Center of Gravity, the mass ratio of ball and club head plus maybe others I've forgotten. And these aren't all linear relationships either. Suggesting anyone can determine that by "feel" is just silly. Trackman has many cases of Tour Pros (men, ladies and long distance hitters) who were unwittingly working with less than ideal smash factors. And these are people at the top of their profession. Smash factor isn't only for drivers either, how many complain about not being able to spin their wedges? There is an optimum number, even for wedges.

Plus there are *so* many variables affecting ball speed it is impossible to derive club speed with any accuracy.

And I know for a fact normal people can't tell "exactly" where the ball makes contact with the club face. My buddies and I have tested that very thing using impact powder. And more than one of them are scratch golfers.

I would recommend everyone measures their smash factors on a Trackman and decide for themselves how far off they are from LPGA/PGA values and how much they could improve by optimizing the numbers.

Stripping away all the hyperbole, you did have one factual comment though. Smash factor as a ratio of two numbers is sensitive to accuracy of readings. Plus measuring club head speed isn't so easy (it varies between heel and toe, as well as from high to low on the face). So best to use caution when obtaining smash factor numbers, especially if one doesn't know how they are obtained.

Everyone can tell when they hit the ball in the center of the face. Most can also tell high/low, heel/toe. Center contact with a straight shot is the only place where maximum a smash factor number has any relevance. At that point you also maximize ball speed which is all that really matters, along with launch angle and spin . You may maximize carry slightly high on the face due to decreased backspin if you already have enough backspin for decent ball slight. Worrying about clubhead speed on the heel/toe etc. is just silly. You might also look up the equation relating ball and clubhead speed, derived using the physics of elastic collisions, to understand what really matters.

I also am amused by your reference to Trackman since they publish no as shipped/designed accuracy secs for anything except carry distance. If you are obsessed with smash factor find someone with a GC2 and HMT and have some idea how accurate your numbers actually are along with readouts of where you actually hit the ball on the face.of the clubhead you are using..

**inorkuo** · 10-25-2016, 04:06 PM

hey mhale, try alt e and change the club speed factor through the setting's file. if that still doesn't work there is a reset_to_impact setting that is the measured distance from the back row of sensors to the impact sensors. if you decrease that number, it should result in a lower club speed calculations.

**mhale** · 10-26-2016, 04:49 PM

inorkuo, I tried setting the club speed in in the settings file it didn't changed anything, where do I find the reset to impact setting. Thanks for your help.

**iskuo** · 10-26-2016, 05:10 PM

Hit ctrl-e while on the interface

**goatbarn** · 10-27-2016, 12:30 AM

When I used to have a protee system, it was a temporary setup.

I had to place the mat and sensor everytime I setup.

Thus the location of the sensor vs overhead light would be slightly off.

When the sensor was too far forward, ie. the light was a little further from the screen than the sensor, I would get higher swing speeds and ball speeds.

Knowing how the technology works helps to understand why that makes sense. But typing on my phone is tough, lol.

Make sure your overhead light is correctly placed.

**mhale** · 10-28-2016, 04:37 PM

Ok I tried the ctrl-e while on the interface, and it didn't really change anything for Driver club speed, I have had my system setup for years, and haven't had this problem before, last spring it was working fine, I didn't use it during the Golf season, but I updated TGC and the interface before I started the interface the 1st time this fall, my other clubs seem to be working fine for swing speeds. It just doesn't make sense that the slider for driver club speed will not slow the speed but it will speed it up. Maybe I should see if slowing it past the .5 in the settings file will work, just thought of that. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Driver Swing speed to High

Driver Swing speed to High

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