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It freaking kills me playing TGC tournament and putting for birdie and end up quadruple bogeying holes. I know I'm not the best putter in the world, but it just seems like putting is all over the board. Knocking short puts off the green, or long puts going nowhere.... I almost threw my putter into the screen during my last round I was so pissed. It would actually make me feel better knowing that I just suck and that it isn't the Skytak.
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I have no idea about sky trac but just so you guys know. Protee putting sensor Is 4 degrees if it trips the sensor to the right of the center sensor. So there is no 1-3 degrees according to my testing just now. It's either straight or missed. -
I just finished playing 27 holes. had 4 putts that stood out to me as misses because the ball had either a left or right bias. They were all different lengths ranging from 8 up to 20 some feet. I did however hole a 35 footer because it kicked to the left and i had played too little break and it actually helped me in that case. but that is 3 strokes, that doesn't mean that they would of gone in, but they were well hit putts right on line that had 0 chance of going in, because of the variance. Considering i was +2 for 27 holes, that could of possibly been the difference between a sub par round and not. I did have several putts that were made as well, so i'm not saying every putt is a miss due to this. I just think if we have a way to improve it, even a little bit, it should done.Comment
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We need a couple of guys to do a test. Turn putting correction off. Place a ball on the target line 6-10 feet away. You may have to putt quite a few to help you find center. Don't worry what the ball does in the game, just look at the data. Aim at the target ball. If you hit the ball at all.... it's less than 1 degree from 9 feet. See how the target ball reacts....if it goes right after being hit that means that the shot was left of center. All LM's should be doing a test like this. At 9 feet, if you just miss the ball( 1.5 inches). That is 0.8 degrees off center. The closer to center you hit the straighter that target ball will go after being hit. At 3 degrees off center, you are not making a 9 foot putt on a flat surface. Now because we rarely have putts on TGC that are perfectly flat most people would just accept the odd 3 degrees off center. If it turns out that LM's need to have the 0 degree HA for putting so be it.
Now, how do we make this fair? Pretty easy if you step back and try to think of it from a GSA or ProTee's point of view. Here are the facts. Putts are rarely flat. 0 HA will only help on putts that are fairly short. 3 degrees will hurt the chances of the putt going in .... almost 100% of the time.
We should have a set distance...0 to 10-15 feet or so, that all putts are 0 HA regardless of sim. If the LM need to have 0 HA, let them have it for all putts. This method will make it fair and nobody is really going to have an advantage because of how their sim measures putts.
Now if the GC2 doesn't need to be rounded off or have 0 HA, use pure data like with GSA ( GSA rounds off to 1/10 of a degree)
This should cover all of the bases.Last edited by keither5150; 03-21-2017, 12:48 PM.Comment
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I guess I don't understand all this. Are we saying that sky trac randomly is a few degrees off on a straight putt? Are we really considering guaranteeing a straight putt for 10-15 feet? I have only see a few sky trac people chime in, is this really a big issue? I have seen so many people praise the sky trac and so many low scores with them, especially Vincent vega who just switched to gc2. He actually mentioned he was having a bit of trouble adjusting to gc2 putting I believe. Anyway, I think we are opening a can of worms here but what do I know. I have putts I disagree with on my protee but I also have a perfect lie in deep rough.Comment
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From day one with my ST I've had what I call a "right bias". If you hit a putt straight down the target line you will often get a 3 degree miss to the right. To "adjust" I have to aim "some amount" to the left (talking about rolling the putt left). With a lot of effort before playing I can get many 0 HA readings during a round. The next time I set up to play I have to do it all over again and it could be pretty miserable for that round. Protee says the shot data given from the ST is way worse than just the 3 degrees either way. They put up bumpers to keep the dispersion between +3 and -3 HA.
I'm not saying we should lock in a 0 HA for putting, but I know it can be awful if you don't put a lot of effort into getting a good baseline for putting.
Furthermore, I have many friends that are good golfers and I'm embarrassed to let them come play on my system because the putting direction can be so bad.
There are many ST users that have complained about this. The fact that they aren't commenting on the thread doesn't change that.
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0 HA for putting has my vote. Between bumpy hitting mats and unreliable numbers from skytrak, it sounds like the best option.Comment
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Yes skytrak will randomly throw a straight putt offline.
DirtyGarry24 if I understand you correctly, you intentionally hit your putt left to try to get it to read more straight. Is this correct? What happens then if it reads correctly, wouldn't you then miss left? You'd always have it in the back of your mind is it going to read bias right or is it going to read correctly and then miss in the other direction.
I think if it's zero'd out for everyone inside of a predetermined length, it makes it fair across the board.
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You're exactly right wbond. I do get left misses because of this. Somebody earlier in the thread pulled all of my putt data and it showed that I actually miss more to the left. A deep aversion to avoid this right bias. It will drive you mad during a competitive round if you let it. I'll start trying to adjust my cursor aim in the game to align with the miss that I expect to get at that time. That's a dark hole to go down there.
Only way I've found for it to be decent is to practice before every competitive round and find the "best" aim point for that day. Keep in mind I set up my ST almost every time I use it. Some days I can set it up and have a very good putting round. The next day I may not be able to get a 0 HA for a short putt to save my life. I actually think you can get on the wrong side of the rounding and miss 1 degree right or left no matter what. I experienced this Sunday while getting ready to play my tourney round. Finally said f it and went in. Missed many of those inside 10 foot putts.
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For me I just putt like I would in real life, because I'm working on my putting stroke and don't want to screw up my IRL game, so I just accept the misses when they come. To me it seems some courses are worse than others, but that may be just in my head. This is a SkyTrak issue because it happens in all sim softwares I've tried (TGC, JNPG, e6). I got SkyJacked probably 4-5 times in my JNPG tournament round this morning. It's a 50-50 thing where the SkyJacked putt would have gone in. Sometimes it gets SkyJacked but the putt was not good enough to go in regardless of whether it stayed on line or not. Most of the time for me it's because I hit it short of the cup.Comment
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SkyJacked is a good word for it. I may borrow that one. I agree, I think it can definitely message your IRL stroke in a bad way. I'm too competitive though to accept the SkyJacking (LOL) and I make myself crazy trying to putt around the hardware.
Would you be for or against locking in a 0 HA for TGC users regardless of system that chose to use it?
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for gc2, i made a gutter using two long pieces of wood, covered loosely with black fabric. i hit the ball using the grip end of the putter billiards style because i can't putt straight to save my life.
ha speed (mph) 0.6 3 -1.6 4 -0.8 3 0.6 3 0.8 3 0.0 3 -0.8 3 0.1 3 -0.4 3 0.0 3 -0.1 2 0.6 3 -0.5 3 -0.2 2 0.1 3 1.0 2 -0.1 3 0.7 3 1.3 2 0.2 2 Last edited by inorkuo; 03-21-2017, 05:10 PM.Comment
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You are correct. Meant to add that to my post and had to run somewhere. Question, given the chance would you use a "straight putting" mode as suggested by Protee below? -
if i were better at putting and i felt like i was being penalized more often than not, i might opt for the straight putting mode, but for me, i want to know if i am pushing or pulling my putts. looking at my data, for the last few months of tournaments, out of 228 putts, only 56% were straight (within -1.5 and +1.5 with gsx putting forgiveness set at 2), 20% pushed, and 24% pulled with a few 5 and 6 degree misses which i questioned at the time but given the test i just did...well let's just say i need some more practice and tournaments add an element of pressure that makes for more meaningful practice.
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We probably end up with a generic PUTTING STRAIGHT=ON/OFF switch in the settings file, so you can decide if you want to use it or not.
For the tours we can set the rules. Your HA's are logged, so its fairly easy to check if you have the switch ON or OFF...Comment
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ProTee United why not have a putting forgiveness setting for skytrak similar (but greater because of wider tolerance) to gsx for gc2 in addition to an upper limit, or is skytrak's putting measurement just too all over the place for it to make a difference?
DirtyGarry24, would you be able to do a similar test with skytrak and putting correction off? i sold mine a little while back but it would be interesting to see what the actual readings are. when i had a skytrak i had to align it slightly to the right for full shots but then i had to putt a little right to get decent putting results. maybe wbond and Thinman could provide some data too, since all three of you guys are good putters and maybe not all skytrak's are created equal.
Last edited by inorkuo; 03-21-2017, 06:51 PM.Comment
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That's right, except that I needed some dark fabric to cover the wood for the gc2 to read. Something about the light color of the wood was messing with the gc2. Not sure how skytrak would react though. I will try the "dolla bills" before every stroke. That's probably why I got the two outlier readings last time. -
If you guys take the trouble to do the test it would be nice to see 10 shots at 1 mph, 10 @2mph, 10@3mph and 10 @4mph. Otherwise the statistics get messed up if the skytrak accuracy is changing with ball speed.
Inor are you really using 2x4? That effectively puts the GC2 1.5 inches below the ball. I'd make sure that isn't affecting the readings. -
gc2 won't read at 1mph but how about i do 2, 3, 4, and 5?
i'm good on height. i have the metal case which raises the gc2 up 2 inches with the feet extended out and the wood i used is 7/8 inch thick plus a little fabric so just under 1 inch up for the ball. that puts the gc2 right around 1 inch above the ball for my test.
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I'm as competitive as they come, but I don't want to screw up my IRL game :-). I would like to see a tighter tolerance. I'm not sure I'm in favor of a "straight" putt on every putt with the only possibility of a miss being a misread, because while I consider myself to be an above average putter I do have my fair share of pushes/pulls for them to be totally eliminated by technology.Comment
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inorkuo For GC2 users, could this same thing be done by turning up gsx putting forgiveness to max? I always forget to reset my foregiveness to 2 i wish it would remember my preference.Comment
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you can tell if your putting forgiveness is set to 2 or not after your first couple of putts. if the gc2 readout shows anything less than 1.5 push/pull and tgc doesn't show you a straight putt in the shot display then it's not set at 2. at this point you could minimize tgc, pull up the gsx window, adjust the setting and keep on going.
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Hey guys, quick update. I constructed a quick v-block style ball roller out of two alignment sticks taped together. It worked really well. I haven't checked, but the results are going to be as expected. Pathetic. You can check my non tour shot records. Not sure how many or numbers, but I could see what the ball was doing. Off to soccer practice now, will compile tomorrow.Comment
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Damnit, just remembered that I forgot to turn off putt correction. Oh well, will be good for a second test. Again, great idea by inorkuo.Comment
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here's the second test for gc2. not sure this says a whole lot except that gc2 is within +/- 1 degree 80% of the time and out to +/- 1.5 degrees 20% of the time.
ha speed (mph) ha speed (mph) ha speed (mph) ha speed (mph) 0.6 2 -0.1 3 -0.7 4 0.3 5 0.4 2 -0.5 3 1.6 4 0 5 1.3 2 0.1 3 -1 4 0.5 5 0.3 2 0.9 3 0.4 4 1.1 5 0.4 2 -0.1 3 0.2 4 -0.9 5 0.1 2 0.5 3 0 4 0.9 5 0.6 2 0.7 3 -1.1 4 -1 5 0.9 2 -0.1 3 0.2 4 -1.6 5 1.5 2 1.1 3 -1 4 -1.2 5 0.3 2 -0.1 3 -0.8 4 0.5 5 Comment
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