SkyTrak distances are short

[Marcus Schantz]

I have read about this issue here but I don't see a cause or resolution.

All of a sudden I am about 25-35 yards short on every club. Nothing at all has changed that could possibly account for this. The unit has 0 degrees of tilt and roll.


Any suggestions?


Thanks

[968Cab]

I’m in the process of compiling data about this.

I am running different scenarios with altitudes, temps/humidity, different mats, while keeping the club and ball constant.

Also lucky to be able to contrast with a trackman at local fitter. Next week, I’m hoping to have them set up and hit with simultaneously, rather than just comparing data files.

I’m also hoping to get a buddy to laser / spotter with me soon, as a three factor test.

All I know for sure right now is that I am a 10hcp fade hitter, who stands over a 155 *to the pin* fairway shot, plans 5-7yards of roll, and can nail it all
day long. So I’m carrying 8i 150+/-5 yards, and have for 35years...as I’ve aged, the balls have improved and the lofts have gotten stronger. If there is one constant in my game, it’s my 155yd 8i.

With SkyTrak, I can’t get the same exact 8-iron and ball combo to carry over 107-112yds until I start jacking around with the altitude setting. And most are left with no fade. (although I’ve managed to mitigate that with alignment advice here). Today, set at 8000’ (!!!), I had a 10 ball average of 132. I’m in DFW at about 500’ above sea level. That’s still (generously) 10yds short with a 7500’ boost!!

Oh, and that is after I moved off of my fiberbuilt “don’t hit it fat” mat, and onto a firm CCE type surface...where a fat-ish shot just kind of scoots along and doesn’t decel.

Something isn’t right.

[Marcus Schantz]

My experience with excessive side spin has always been the unit not being properly aligned with the target line. Routinely I have to 'zero' my unit by hitting some pitches with a wedge and then turning the unit either toward or away from the target line to find the center. This is very easy to do and can be done quickly. Once it's centered any sidespin is coming from me.

The distance issue is baffling because it happened all of a sudden. Initially, I thought perhaps it was the club, so I tried others and it was the same for all. I hit my 3 hybrid 190-200 yards but lately on the SkyTrak it's been about 170 at most. This is really frustrating heading into the cold season. I was just on the range yesterday with my radar, which along with my eyes, re-confirmed my club distances. Then I get into my garage and I'm not even close.

The SkyTrak is not cheap, so I don't think I am being unreasonable by demanding that the distances be close.

I will be VERY interested to learn your results from a side-by-side comparison with the Trackman.

[Morini]

No, that is not right. A couple of shots side by side with Trackman should settle that very quickly. If the ST indeed does read short, it would be actual evidence of a hardware issue, rather than speculation that may or may not have other causes.

[mikemcd22]

I am also experiencing this problem. It almost seems intermittent however, it started about a month ago and with no obvious changes to the environment around the Skytrak. Long story short, I sent one skytrak in for repairs and ended up buying a new one. Both are doing the same thing. Like 968Cab I know my irons IRL and something is definitely not right... That said, since there have been no updates, what can possibly have changed? I'm going to take a look at side spin today and calibrate using the chipping method to see if that helps.

[wbond]

Take the unit outside, laser a target and hit balls to it. This will confirm whether or not the unit is bad. Make sure there is no sunlight shining towards the face. It's better to use a few of your own balls vs range balls.

[Morini]

Also no wind.

[OC_Mike]

Weird...mine reads way long and will probably send it in to be looked at. I'm tired of seeing my 7 iron carry 205.

And every shot over draws too much.

[wbond]

When you get those, what is it saying for spin?

[bigwill29]

I just bought my Skytrak about a month ago and thought the distances were a bit short. So I decided to take it to the range and laser out the distances with my range finder and hit balls. I'd say on average its about 10% short. Not end of the world but a bit annoying and not as useful as I would have imagined.

[GungHoGolf]

Total or carry? Range balls? Seeing and lasering where a ball hits the ground is hit or miss. Any breeze that day? A consistent discrepancy like that can usually be solved with an adjustment to the altitude setting.

[bigwill29]

Carry and Range balls. Agree that seeing where the ball hits the ground is very hit or miss so I used the yardage markers as the best gauge I could. If the ball is carrying past the yardage marker but the Skytrak says it would have come up quite short based on what my range finder said that yardage marker is truly at then I used that as the best gauge I could because I had something physical I could see. It was a fairly calm day with a bit of side wind and I'd say the shot shape that the Skytrak had was absolutely perfect. Also the spot I hit from was intentionally in the shade.

I have the altitude adjusted to what google says the elevation is around here (Wisconsin Milwaukee suburbs). But yeah I'd say the discrepancy was consistent and never erratic.

[OC_Mike]

Here's what I'm getting. Everything showing long. I use premium balls, aligned the unit, tried fiberbuilt & CCE...same results. 7 iron IRL is 175-180 if I go after it.

[GungHoGolf]

That’s super-low spin for a 7-iron - should be at least 5500 or so off a mat even. Make sure you’re using white balls with prominent logo towards camera. Also, your avg carry there of 183 over 27 shots is very close to your IRL numbers, and probably just inflated a bit due to hitting off a mat (decreases spin by 20% and increases launch angle by 2 deg vs grass - see https://blog.trackmangolf.com/mats-v...ts-difference/). Don’t look at total distance with mid irons, esp if you’re not hitting greens (rough roll out is long in SkyTrak, esp if ground condition set to firm).

[wbond]

OC_Mike Spin is way too low for a 7 iron. Have you tried aligning the putting stamp on the ball to have it facing ST? Doesn't matter if it's vertical or horizontal. It drops 16 yards on flightscope if the spin goes to 6500, 197 vs 181.

Also, have you actually cleaned your grooves? It can pick up mat material or dirt and really affect spin.

[Marcus Schantz]

I was told by ST over the phone to point the Titleist at the laser but never did it. I'm going to try it and report back.

[OC_Mike]

Yeah, I'm seeming to get low spin readings across the board with all clubs, wedges, etc.

Sorry, the average included some shots taken with an 8 iron. I also only look at carry numbers on skytrak with irons because that's what matters IRL. I am using Taylormade TP5x balls. I'll try again tonight with a fresh ball, scrub the grooves, clean the skytrak lens, and aim the logo. Thanks for your assistance and I'll report back. On a side note, I've never had to aim the logo before. I've had it for two years and it's always been spot on with the distances.

[Marcus Schantz]

I noticed your launch angle for the 7-Iron is pretty low which cuts down on backspin and thus gains distance. I bet the natural pitch of your 7 is 30 degrees or more, so you're de-lofting or tilting the club face toward the target. Many people do this at address by tilting the shaft toward the left thigh, so that your hands are already in the same approximate position they will be at contact.

Are you doing this intentionally? I rarely hit a short iron at natural pitch unless I want a LOT of backspin on it. For instance, my 7-Iron has a 30 degree natural pitch (it's a blade and has less pitch than most other clubs) but I average about 25 at contact with an average backspin of almost 6,000. I have better control of my shots if they don't go really high (with some exceptions).


Great shot shapes, btw.

[JackedUpSwing]

30 degrees for a 7iron is really high. I hit the ball higher than your average and I launch a 7iron at 21degrees

[968Cab]

Just got home from my fitter. Got 15-20 good reads with both ST and TMan simultaneously. BOTH missed a couple reads while the other picked it up—not just a ST thing!

5 or 6 with old 8i, and 10-15 with new, custom fit 8i I just took delivery of. Definitely some interesting results as we went...both good and bad. Some were dead on carry-wise, others significant diff.

Fitter is also a PGA Pro. He had some interesting thoughts and ideas about indoor vs out, mat vs grass, mat type, ball temp, air density. Interesting convo.

I’m waiting to get the email with the TMan reports so I can compare and post here, rather than from in-session recollection. That will include averages as well.

However, my gut is telling me the ST may be “off”, but not nearly as far off as I perceived/thought. More to follow....

[TrueGolferNorth]

Indoors, TrackMan is not as accurate as SkyTrak for side spin # therefore offline # when you don’t hit center of the club face, especially for long clubs like 3 w and drivers.

[968Cab]

Well, this was strictly a distance discussion...and conducted with an 8iron.

[Morini]

Not just side spin, but backspin. Indoors, I'd side with ST over Trackman when there is a discrepancy in spin. I tested against Trackman, and on my unit at least ball speed and VLA was very close ... most of the time. I had the odd one a bit off.

Most of the carry variation was due to differences in spin.

[968Cab]

Alright boys, this is what I've got: cutting right to the chase, SkyTrak is fine. Assuming that the Trackman is an infallible baseline comparator (which it's not), SkyTrak is not perfect, but not out to lunch either. If you want my longwinded explanation/thoughts...read on.


Here's what I did: I had been fitted for & ordered a custom set of irons last week. When they arrived, I showed up with my SkyTrak in hand and proposed comparing it simultaneously with the Trackman to the Pro. He was all for it!

Warmed up like normal with a few wedges. Then I hit 6 shots with my old 8 iron (Hogan Edge, DyGold S300). Then hit 11 with my new one (TMade P760, Project X, LZ 5.5), same balls (Srixon ZStar...I play Snell MTB-X). This was the first time I hit my new clubs, I was literally there to pick them up because they'd just arrived. BTW, lofts measured at Hogan 38*, P760 37*...not a factor.

I chucked the worst and best shots with each club. Then tossed one from each group based on bad data--group 1 had one shot with 12000rpm spin with SkyTrak, while group 2 had one shot with a launch angle of 8* with Trackman. I feel I don't need to know the formulas, software and their application within the units that well to predict the other results would be affected by such outliers.

Results depicted in the screen cap below.




Couple of notes: SkyTrack was set to 1000', local area is actually 700-ish. You'll notice that Trackman missed the clubhead one time in each group...no smash for those shots. The SkyTrak smash was hand calculated by me--public math warning. Same with the SkyTrak height, which is reported in yds in the report, so I converted to feet. Lastly, the AVG DIFF is exactly that: an average of the two sets of differentials, probably not the exactly correct way to do that (averaging two averages), but close enough for illustrative purpose. Besides, my brain was tired by then.

I'll let y'all analyze why certain measurements (and their way of being gathered/calculateted) are what they are. I keep ending up in a "chicken or egg" loop in my head when I try to compare the two monitors and their methods.

IMO, those AVG DIFF numbers are so small across the board, it's not even worth the energy to worry about or consider any longer.

Obviously 15 or 20 shots does not a comprehensive evaluation make (he had a fitting coming in, and I had to get going about my day). But, IMO, it is a good, revealing simultaneous comparison, that eliminates the variables (same mat, club, ball and strike) well enough to conclude the (my) SkyTrak is accurate relative to a $24K Trackman, in a professional environment. And when I say "professional", I mean an actual PGA Pro employs it, AND actual PGA Tour players have used the facility...this isn't the media room at my house or my buddy's garage.

So why the constant complaints about SkyTrak (myself included) distances? I REALLY hate to blame it on 'indoor swing"...so I won't. However, your physical location may differ from mine, Bob's, Tom's, Tiger's etc. Even this place I used was like swinging outside space-wise...it was at least 30'x50'x20'. But being indoors makes a difference even if not to your swing; and this Pro agrees. Temp, humidity, ball temp, air density...the list is long. It all adds up (or subtracts). It is a SIMULATOR after all, it's not perfect nor real (take it from an airline pilot with A LOT of simulator time ). I think this is reflected in my distances here, along with a slightly shorter ball than I play IRL--add 7-10 yards to the depicted averages, and you'll see numbers very close to what I was saying in other posts about my 8iron distance (still not exact, tho)

Secondly, and I think this is where my main issue is at home: the Fiberbuilt mat, while greatly advantageous from a physical health standpoint, *severely* punishes even the slightest of "fat" shots. I'm a divot taker, not a picker--even with a 4 iron, I leave a mark. This one item is the biggest disadvantage, to me, in using this kind of system for practice or sim play. It simply doesn't fit my real life game 100%. Hitting at this facility, on his mat set up (I do not know what it is) didn't yield any of those 105yd 8 iron readings I see at home.

It is what it is, however. And I intend to keep my Fiberbuilt mat and my SkyTrak. I will adjust the altitude setting to drive the results towards my real life numbers, keeping in mind that even with that, it still won't *exactly* replicate standing on 17 at Sawgrass and pulling a PW....I'll pull the 9....or 8.

[kokoskorpen]

Thanks for taking the time to write! Very interesting.

Isn't punishing fat shots a good thing, if it doesn't hurt wrists and back? Some folk seem to think that FB is too forgiving. I guess it depends on which swing type one has.

[Marcus Schantz]

Thank you!

Couple of notes. My issue with distance is that all of a sudden my yardage has gone down with the ST, and I cannot explain why. Also, all summer I was hitting off a mat similar to yours. It was too spongy and I also take a divot with every shot and that swing was impossible with that mat. In fact, the mat actually screwed me up because for about one month I hit almost exclusively on it and when I went to a range I was a mess, hitting everything thin. I've recently bought a much thinner mat where I can use my regular swing (or really close to it).

At the end of the day on the distance issue, it really doesn't matter that much. I am much more concerned about shot shape. I hit outside all the time, so I know my real distance. I am concerned, however, about the distance issue because there could be something wrong with my unit.

Again, thanks for doing all of this.

[Putt-For-Doe]

Have you tested shots off of a Tourstrike Gel Mat

[Smudge7204]

Thank you for this, i have been straining my little pea brain about getting a skytrak and have been worried about all the negative comments lately. I think you basically confirmed my thoughts that while not perfect, it will be good enough to keep the swing going through winter/and accurate enough to play on the tour. Appreciate all the hard work you put into this!

[Morini]

Thanks for sharing.

1. If I read this correctly, ST actually carried longer than TM on average.

2. It seems your IRL vs sim differences are caused by club-mat interactions, so it wouldn't matter what sim you used, that is what the ball is doing. As I have mentioned before, for sim players, it would be nice to be able to "normalize" VLA and spin for impact of mat versus turf so that golfers can go from sim to course and vice versa without having to make adjustments.

3. My understanding that FB mats do a better job than most. Perhaps not for your swing style. I wonder if divot action would work for you. Or fairway pro. Since it moves, it may interfere with read, I am not sure.

[968Cab]

Glad you guys see some use to this little exercise. If nothing else, it’s interesting to see the data side by side, and for me, puts my ST doubts to rest.

Koko—big difference between a fat shot in real life and taking a divot. With FB, I see no difference, that’s my point...my normal divot equates to fat on a FB. The punishment or penalty for taking my normal swing (which works fine on all kinds of turf, btw) on FB is sometimes in excess of 30 yards. It’s too severe, and doesn’t reflect real life. I’m not a hack, “a little fat” is hardly a wrist breaker on turf. Make sense?

Morini—TM was longer with old club, ST with the new one....I’d bet that will favor TM after I’ve swung the new ones more than 20 times. I’ve thought about that Divot Action. Need to let the coffers replenish a bit, and maybe I’ll try it out. I know I researched both and chose FB for a reason or two, just can’t remember why.