losing carry and distance on SkyTrak with range balls

[sirish19]

Hi All,

I generally play on my home simulator and get pretty accurate distances with the SkyTrak and the TGC2019. I generally play ProV1's on the sim and the numbers that I get do seem to simulate what I get IRL.

However, when I take the ST to the driving range, I am consistently seeing a decrease in distance of about 10-15%. I also had several other of my friends who are very good (including one guy who is a teaching pro) who all found it to be similarly short.

Is it common that we see shorter distances with range balls? The ranges here in Japan that I go to are completely enclosed with netting so I don't think there is any need for them to use balls that are intentionally short. They may be a lot cheaper and not wear out as quickly though so there could be some benefit to the range I guess.

Does anyone have any insight into this and what are the physics that makes the driving range read short? Do range balls also affect other things such as spin rate, launch angle, etc. Also, I know that there is a boost for TGC2019 but is there also a boost for the SkyTrak? I know you can tinker with elevation but I don't really see that that does very much.

any insight on this would be helpful.

[jefe]

Golf ball compression differences are substantial.

I have a compression tester and, on a blind test, can consistently hit the ball with higher compression (firmer) at least 15 yards further. Range balls are usually dual core and have really terrible compression. Whereas prov1's have 4 cores or 3 cores in the Callaway. If you have cash to burn, check out the Pro Check compression tester. I use it to test found balls on the course.

Just a thought

[Morini]

Yes, driving range balls affect all those things. I would never use driving range to dial in distance. Good for practicing making contact, and to verify shot shape, but that is about it. Trackman has a normalizing function. As soon as the shot is hit, the ball data pops up. Then it applies a correction to bring range ball data to what it would have been with premium ball. There is a different normalization function for different brands of range balls. Also don't forget that range balls can be quite worn and damaged, so you never know what you are going to get. If you want to know, hit a few premium balls and you will know the difference, and maybe even could create your own idea of normalization. I noticed that for a mid iron, Trackman adds about 3 mph.

[3on3putt]

Of course range balls don't perform like regular balls. This is why I tend to think that outdoor launch monitor use is a bit overrated. If you're at a really nice range that has high quality balls (like the proV1 practice balls), I can see the value. But if you go to a range with rock hard Pinnacle range balls that are beat to hell, and your numbers are reading low (as should be expected), what are you really getting out of that? What exactly are you trying to achieve there?

Tour pros use their launch monitors on the range during tournament weeks because they are given the exact model of ball to hit on the range as they do on the course (at most if not all tournaments). So it makes sense for them, especially because they're playing at different elevations every week and off different grasses. But for us mortals hitting crappy range balls, it doesn't make much sense unless you're just having a long drive contest with a buddy or something.

[GungHoGolf]

Well said, totally agree.

[Bubba22]

By the way Sirish19, I absolutely love your golf courses. Great work and thank you so much.

[3on3putt]

I'll second that. Keep 'em coming.

[sirish19]

Thanks for the responses guys, that all makes perfect sense. I generally use the ST on my home sim setup and only take the ST to the range when I want to practice with a friend who wanted to see his numbers or we wanted to play a round or a few holes on TGC 2019. We were a little disappointed with the distances and I was sure it had to do with the range balls, but wasn't sure about the physics of it and wasn't sure if there was anything in the ST software that would let you boost or normalize the numbers but I guess there isn't. How about the other numbers, backspin, side spin, etc., are those all affected too?

I believe that there is some boost setting in TGC 2019 so I guess we could use the range on that and boost to try to normalize.

[3on3putt]

I would expect all the numbers will be off with your typical range ball. They just don't behave at all like regular balls. If they did we would play them on the course haha.

[sirish19]

By the way Sirish19, I absolutely love your golf courses. Great work and thank you so much.

Thanks for that, I am glad that you all enjoy them. I am still learning a lot about how to improve things in the designer. I've got a few works in progress so hope to have something new coming out before too long.

[Bubba22]

Looking forward to more creations. 👍

[Wizard of Coz]

What is your best design? Better yet give me your 3 favorites. Thanks

[sirish19]

Thanks for that, I am glad that you all enjoy them. I am still learning a lot about how to improve things in the designer. I've got a few works in progress so hope to have something new coming out before too long.

Hi Wizard of Coz, I would give a preference to my Japanese courses since those are the ones that I play the most IRL and we don't see many Japanese courses on TGC2019. As such, I would say my 3 top favorites are Olympic National East (L) (this is my home course so I spent the most time on that one), Olympic Country Club R&H (this is an autumn theme and is really nice) and Taiheiyo GC - Gotemba (this is where the Taiheiyo Masters is played, which is the Japanese version of the Masters).

[3on3putt]

I believe one of your courses was used in the Protee Exhibition season wasn't it?

[pcascio]

Usually, there are markers at the range to help you gauge distance. How do those compare to your ST readings?

[3on3putt]

He's talking about the range balls going shorter than his regular balls that he uses on the course or at home with his Skytrak. Not the range balls going shorter than what the Skytrak is saying.

[sirish19]

Hi Wizard of Coz, I would give a preference to my Japanese courses since those are the ones that I play the most IRL and we don't see many Japanese courses on TGC2019. As such, I would say my 3 top favorites are Olympic National East (L) (this is my home course so I spent the most time on that one), Olympic Country Club R&H (this is an autumn theme and is really nice) and Taiheiyo GC - Gotemba (this is where the Taiheiyo Masters is played, which is the Japanese version of the Masters).

Actually, almost all of my courses have been used in the Exhibition tournaments at one time, ProTeeMax seems to like having some novelty in those tournaments. It is also nice as I can get a few more plays on the course. They usually get a small spike right after I publish it here and then another small spike during the tournaments.

[sirish19]

Usually, there are markers at the range to help you gauge distance. How do those compare to your ST readings?

Thanks, yeah, as 3on3putt mentioned, I was particularly worried about the numbers on the ST being a lot shorter when I take it to the range vs when I play on my Sim at home with ProV1 balls as well as on the course. I figured it must have to do with the balls but just wanted to try to figure out the physics of it to understand why. I do often bring my range finder and measure the distances of the flags at the range just to make sure I know exactly what the distance is. Also what was really curious to me is that at one of the ranges that I go to, they actually have a launch monitor set up at every station. That doesn't give you all of the data, basically just clubhead speed, ball speed, and total distance. It doesn't tell you carry distance, spin rates, launch trajectory or anything else. Also, with this one, you have to select which club you are hitting and it adjusts the distance based upon the club. So if I have driver selected and then he a pitching wedge, it may show a distance of 200 yards (or vice versa). I know that that is not at all accurate so I wanted to bring the ST to try to get a comparison. They seem to have some kind of normalization algorithm with that because I was seeing a driving distance of around 230-250 which is what I normally see IRL where the ST was giving me around 200-220 at that range.

So I was just curious. I also have a friend who is interested in getting a ST but he was a bit disappointed to see very short distances when measuring at the driving range. Most people don't have space here in Japan for a simulator setup, so they would pretty much have to use at the range. If there was some kind of driving range normalizer function, it would be quite useful.