SkyTrak and The Golf Club (TGC) Simulation Software

[Hoosierdaddy]

Let me just clarify, the 660 is a good card and it used to work great with the old redchain software. But even on the newer courses on Redchain it was at it's limit. Read the HB forums. I seen many posts of members complaining using that card. yes the 670 is better. Never really seen many posts of complaints with that card. But I do know for a fact that if you have lag issues it slows the game down. So while your sitting there watching your screen jump around we on the other end sit and wait for our turn to hit. And if you actually ever played online you would understand the frustrations. Try this for me and tell me your results.... go into the course creator start a course. then start to lay in some bushes. anyplace is fine. Tell me if you have a delay from the time you actually hit the button to the time it lets you plant the next one. With a good card you can plant one after another after another. no delay. almost as fast as you can hit the button. The same thing happens when you hit the ball it has to plant/or render each one of those bushes as your ball flies through the air. So when your ball gets ahead of the rendering the objects start to appear right infront of your eyes instead of 600 yards away like mine does. and at some point it has to stop and catch up. When you putt the ball is all jerky all the way to the hole. Most of the time you don't even see it go in if it does or if you miss you dont get a good look at the roll for the putt coming back. I am not a computer expert. I know just enough to allow me to build one and get it going. But I can tell you I had an AMD card equal to the 660 and it don't work. Now I have a 770 and it works perfect. No delays anyplace. I got mine for $220. I also built my rig with an AMD 8520. Which is faster than your i7. unless you have the 4770. Then you're a bit faster. But it all means nothing if your internet connection is slow. I was reading the PG forums the other night trying to get up to speed on that software an I seen a couple posts on there that people were saying the 770 is not even enough. I have had no issues so far but I have only tested PG a few times with the skytrak. I am going to put it through the paces this weekend so we will know then. But from what I have seen PG is nothing compared to TGC. It's like a watered down version of TGC. But it will be fun. It's much better than ReadChain and I like a few of the bells and whistles TGC don't have. But for the most part TGC wins in almost every category

But to each his own there Brett. When we finally get on line I will bring a bottle of ketchup... I found when your'e eating crow it goes down a lot better with ketchup. That is assuming you actually do get online. Not sure who's gonna be eating that bird but I can almost guarantee it's not gonna be me my friend.

[Brettster]

Hoosier - I did not find all the posts you spoke of complaining about the 660, instead what I found is many posts claiming problems when they were running lower output power supplies with the 660 and then I saw later posts saying all works fine after they updated their power supply.

AMD is crap compared to Intel, and yes I have the 4770. I've ran both chips and have been a software engineer for going on 30 years. I don't see any of those problems you speak of with plants rendering, or the ball when putting.

You're right I do not have it hooked to a projector yet - and maybe that will slow things down enough to cause me problems - we'll see, but I may be testing it soon with a SD BenQ projector which I could project onto my office wall and film a video for you - would that be good enough, or do you think the ST will slow the video/projection down too (I doubt it)?

[Hoosierdaddy]

Brettster. Read the posts after this one. I rest my case. Oh and I been a welder/fabricator for 20 years. In those 20 years I spent the better part of them fixing the engineers screwups. So the engineer title don't impress me in the least. I seen the problems I spoke of first hand for the better part of 2 months. So if your degree makes your computer run better than another with the same components then you are golden. Don't change a thing. But for those less fortunate that don't have your degree I suggest getting a better card. And you must be a quick read if you read all the posts on the HB site dealing with what cards to use. They are there, either that or I had some really weird dreams.

But I do agree that AMD is the lesser of the 2 chips. And I would have used the i7 4770 in my build, but I could not find a decent MB (that I could afford)that had enough slots to add the two UBS controller cards that you need for the cameras when using Protee. So I saved $100 on the chip and $100 on the MB. And bought an aftermarket cooler for the AMD chip for $30.

All the things I mentioned happened when using the Protee not the SkyTrak. So I have no idea what the 660 will do using that unit. But my guess is the results will not be good. I am still bringing the ketchup. I suggest you do the same.

While I am in such a jolly mood let me make one more thing clear. I don't know crap about computer components. But when I decided to purchase my system I knew I was going to need help picking the right stuff. So I came here. I sifted through thousands of posts to find information. Before I knew it I had a working system. When it was time to upgrade I listened to what others had tried and made my choices from there. Now I have been with this bunch going on 6 years. I have tried many things and failed at a few. But I now have a decent working SIM. If my advice or the advice of other long time members means nothing to you then so be it. But since you have yet to pull the trigger and you have zero experience owning and operating a SIM I really don't think its wise to refute the advice given here on these threads. And surely you have no right posting negative comments about any system since you have nothing invested and have no idea if what you read here is true or just an isolated instance. These threads are full of posts with 100's of problems. With many users having the same problem. And about 1% of them have the cure for that problem. People use these threads to find a solution without having to bother customer support. And the last thing needed here is a bunch of propaganda by non users to sift through to find what you're looking for. Please keep this site useful for those who need help. And please don't make posts that may alter someone's decisions on what is needed to operate a sim until you actually know what is needed.

Now with that said go out and buy a SIM system. And then get it up and working. Then tell us how you did it. This site can always use another VALUABLE MEMBER.

Hope to see you on tour this winter.

[Mxwoodman]

One thing to add that using TCG on the PC and the PC monitor it seems good enough but when projecting the image it seems to take more HP to be smooth, fast and look good, but those were my results get the best video card you can

[Sascha1818]

Hey Seth, you have been pretty quiet the last few days. Is there any chance you could feed us with some updates in regards of how far out (ball park I know you will not give dates) TGC , WTG,
E6 ... are ? Just something ?

[aja]

It just amazes me that Skytrak 'support' is done by proxy through this forum...

[Spudly]

One thing to add that using TCG on the PC and the PC monitor it seems good enough but when projecting the image it seems to take more HP to be smooth, fast and look good, but those were my results get the best video card you can

This is very true, I found out this early on when using a serial port connection to a projector. Once I upgraded my laptop and went to a HD projector via and HDMI connection it was so much smoother and faster.

[JV17]

Yes, Hoosier is right Bret. You must not be running a projector, certainly not an HD projector. As soon as I got a projector, everything changed. I immediately had to upgrade from the 660. Went to the 770 and I notice a change in speed without the projector too. The 660 wasn't as good as it seemed. In reality it was slow to begin with, and completely useless with an HD projector.

[Brettster]

JV17 - I might not be running HD as I have a friend that wants to sell me an older BenQ projector running at SD (Standard Definition). I'm not sure how much detail I will lose, or what other issues will appear at that point - I'm told that projector does NOT have HDMI on it, so, I believe it's all RGBY/Video and RCA/Audio, I may have a chance to test that in my home before purchase. I don't see how the ST will slow this down any more, as it's likely the video that's the sticking point.

[JV17]

The one thing I've garnered from reading the forums and practicing on my sim, is that the sim is NOT going to improve your short game.

Aja... I have to disagree with this. It's all relative. If you're a crappy golfer like me, the sim will improve your short game. It'll help improve just about everything. Putting, not so much. If you're a single digit to scratch golfer, probably not too much a sim will do for you. Maybe a few things here or there, but nothing notable I'm sure.

I just don't want to see a high handicapper thinking that a sim won't help their game, because it will. Just regularly hitting the ball with no feedback would be helpful to folks like me, so a sim with good (but imperfect) feedback is a very useful tool.

[Hoosierdaddy]

Aja... I have to disagree with this. It's all relative. If you're a crappy golfer like me, the sim will improve your short game. It'll help improve just about everything. Putting, not so much. If you're a single digit to scratch golfer, probably not too much a sim will do for you. Maybe a few things here or there, but nothing notable I'm sure.

I just don't want to see a high handicapper thinking that a sim won't help their game, because it will. Just regularly hitting the ball with no feedback would be helpful to folks like me, so a sim with good (but imperfect) feedback is a very useful tool.

I agree totally. Just keeping the muscles in tune will improve your game. Not to mention the other aspects of the game it allows you to improve. But a substandard sim becomes more of a hinderance than help.

[Brettster]

Are you running ProTee Hoosier, as this whole thread here is about ST? Do you believe you can compare ProTee/TGC performance with ST/TGC performance - which I don't think will match up, the delays are longer with ST anyway, so not sure how that will affect TGC projection and rendering...

[Bubba22]

I agree with you guys. It is all relative. Some may not improve with sim play but others will improve. The key is a good accurate system.

[Hoosierdaddy]

Brettster I have used TGC for almost a year now on my Protee and up to this point all my comments have been regarding TGC not the SkyTrak. I felt my knowledge of TGC had merit in the context it was given. I have no idea what it will be like with the SkyTrak. And even when I do get my Lic for TGC to test on the SkyTrak I won't be able to answer any questions about the 660 card or anything to do with anything other than the rig I am currently using. I am confident that what I have will perform just as it does with the TGC I have now using the SkyTrak. I don't have your knowledge of computing demands but my thoughts are that TGC has demands whether it be the Sim version on the SkyTrak or the Protee or the GC2. And I am pretty sure they are all the same. But I have been told that the delay is shorter once you get on the PC. I don't see the delay having anything to do with the way the card renders images. From what I am told the delay is because the spin is the last factor to be determined. So hence it will not launch the ball until it has all the data. I heard talk of launching after it had just enough data to give a general direction and then at some point (once all the data is in) changing the ball flight to match the data. Now I am not sure how they ended up doing that. My thoughts ( and only my thoughts) were that the modification in path would take place when the camera angle switches from a golfer's perspective angle to the side view. But at any rate the card will not start rendering until the ball is launched. Prior to launch the only thing you see on the screen is leaves moving or a plane flying or stuff like that. When you have a card that can't keep up you see all that too but as soon as the ball is launched you start to see bushes and tall grass that appears in the distance. And depending on how slow your card is depends on how low you have to set the graphics quality and how far you set the tree distances and stuff. So if you have to set it to low anything that is user generated (I think) appears after the ball gets to within the parameters you have set. When I first got TGC I would line up my shot in a safe spot and hit it and have it roll just into what looked to be just rough standing on the tee box, but as soon as the ball took flight massive bushes and weeds appeared and now I am hitting from the middle of a thicket 8ft tall. But now I can see all that from the tee box. And take it from me when you have a 25 ft putt the ball would stop moving at least twice during the roll to the hole. And when it started rolling again you may lose a few ft of the putt.

I was supposed to start testing TGC with the SkyTrak 2 weeks ago but I did not get my request for a lic key in before Protee went on holiday. But I can tell you that the delay (using Perfect Golf ) is about 1.5 -3 seconds. When I hit the ball the shot to show time was nothing at all. Just a tad bit more than the Protee. But when my buddy would hit the ball his shot to show times seemed a bit longer. He hits a big cut on most all clubs and I hit a very slight draw or fade. But we only played a few holes before we had to get to the course for our tee time. So that was just an observation with no real testing to back it up. Then yesterday I took my son out to play on it and found out that there is no way to have a left handed person play on Perfect Golf. I could not find anyplace to change what handed person you are in the game and the only place I found is using the download you get to update the firmware. But then as soon as you connect to the game again you lose the setting and it goes back to a right handed person. In TGC each player can change everything right down to the color of shoes. Not the case in Perfect Golf. Those are the kind of things they are figuring out. And why they want to have it right when they release it. We all know the folks at SkyTrak won't be able to make that change it will have to be done at Perfect golf. So things like that take time. I should be able to test TGC next week when I get my Lic key. So at that time maybe I can give you some answers on some of your questions. But I won't be of much help to those who are going to try and do it with less than the components I have in place. As all my software is on my new computer and I wont be using my old one for any testing as all the keys are (or will be)on the new computer now. And I have already figured out that my old computer is not sufficient to run TGC.

I hope that answers your question. If you have anymore questions concerning my abilities to post on subjects please PM me and we can discuss it further in private.

[luv2golf]

Brettster It's really getting a bit annoying how you like/choose to question everyone on stuff you don't even have to test.

Your posts are meaningless and without merit and are wasting storage space for this forums server. I've had enough and if you really want to debate with others on what's what, please do it via PM so we don't have to sift through it all.

Cheers, I hope you choose to buy a ST and get online with us other ST owners. Good luck.

[Brettster]

Brettster It's really getting a bit annoying how you like/choose to question everyone on stuff you don't even have to test.

Your posts are meaningless and without merit and are wasting storage space for this forums server. I've had enough and if you really want to debate with others on what's what, please do it via PM so we don't have to sift through it all.

Cheers, I hope you choose to buy a ST and get online with us other ST owners. Good luck.

luv2golf, it's interesting you can make comments like that, are you a moderator? I will comment as I feel needed, if a moderator wants to delete my posts, that's fine, but I really don't feel it's your choice to make that decision.

They do apply to the discussion as I have all of the pieces but the ST (which I will be purchasing very soon), and the posts I was making was to help me determine if ST is the right purchase for me (this is a $2K purchase, not something I'm going to take lightly).

Some of my posts are also my comments with me using a GC2/Foresight sports simulator at my local Sim/Bar, so to claim my posts are meaningless and without merit is unwarranted.

I'm not really interested in posting much more anyway especially on the ST boards (until I have my ST unit) which I can comment on. Really I don't believe you should make comments like you have, if you don't want to read any of my posts - that's your choice, don't read them.

So, know you will not hear much from me up here (ST forums) anymore, unless I absolutely feel it is important to the discussion - but unless you're a moderator - don't bother telling me to stop commenting, that's rude and unwelcoming - and you could have easily made your request by PM as well.

Good luck with your life and your sim use - if you want to reply, send me a PM instead of berating me on the public boards.

[luv2golf]

Sounds Great. Please do post your findings with us when you decide to spend the 2K to buy an ST. Cheers, and good luck with pulling the trigger.

[Sleeping_King]

I'm not a moderator but il tell you what I'm tired of. I'm tired of seeing new posts in this thread, getting excited that TGC is being released only to have to read endless drivel.

[TWiG]

I've gotta agree, everyone deserves there say but when it isn't about the topic is there point ?

[luv2golf]

AGREED 100%.

[GSF_Admin]

Please stay on topic and discuss Skytrak and The Golf Club Simulation software.

Thank you.

[Spudly]

I'm not a moderator but il tell you what I'm tired of. I'm tired of seeing new posts in this thread, getting excited that TGC is being released only to have to read endless drivel.

Thank you!

[Hoosierdaddy]

Ok I think I am ready to give a full rundown on this now. After several sessions with version 2.6 of TGC I think this combo is a winner. The ball flights look great. I must have hit 300 balls and only one driver did not read the shot or launch the ball. The short game is out of this world. I am not sure the reaction you get on the green is the same as what I see on my course but it is real close. The action on the green has always been a little suspect. The ball always ends up in about the spot I would expect but the action you see is a little weird. If I may explain. On a normal 35 yard shot hit with a 60 wedge. Normally you see the ball bounce once then check but still roll out 2-8 feet. On here the ball don't seem to have that check action and the speed of the ball remains the same until it starts its roll then it looks like the spin is applied gradually. I think the end result is the same but the look of the shots roll out is off. It looks like the spin numbers gradually increase as the ball rolls instead of applying all the spin in the first couple bounces like a normal ball would react and then releasing and rolling like a putt to the hole or the end of it's path. A minor issue to me.Just makes the shot look a little phony. But much more real looking than any other software I have played.

Yardages are real close and I hear there is a slight tweak coming for that soon. At this point the longer clubs are just a bit short the mid range clubs are right on and the wedges are a bit long. I still have some testing to do with this. I was told to watch my spin numbers and record them. Still have not done this. Been waiting for 2.7 to do anymore testing and I see its here so soon to come.

Putting is good. Still harder than heck to make one but it can be done. Pretty much the same here as in the past. I did notice that everything feels really fast. The greens seem fast compared to last year.

Ball flights seem true to life for my game. I hit a draw on the drive if I am just swinging my natural/normal swing. and I was able to move it further either way when I wanted to.

Delay is a full 4-5 seconds. Took some getting used to since I was spoiled with no delay in the past but it's not a deal breaker.

Set up time was nothing at all once we resolved an issue with my old lic for TGC. And getting a game going is very simple. open TGC interface, connect box, and hit play game. TGC loads and then every step is identical to the PC version until you swing.

Game play is great. I played 18 holes on Whistling straights white tees and I was impressed. Other than to aim right or left and hit enter after the hole I never had to touch the keyboard. I think that may have been the most enjoyable round of golf on my simulator yet. Aim and fire, aim and fire, now that was nice. Makes up for the delay and then some. I shot +2 for 18 so that was also nice. Gotta love them 6ft gimmies.

I tried to do a twitch video for all of you but for some reason the ads at the beginning would not shut off. I had my webcam set up so you could see me swing and see the Skytrak unit in the picture so you could see the delay time and how the lights reacted and pretty much would have answered any question that arose but I didn't figure you would want to hear the little foreign dudes talking as they killed the zombie warriors from the planet Uranus.

And I didn't want to hang the proverbial carrot in front of your faces either. I know how bad some of you want this and I feel your pain brothers I feel your pain. I am having the same longing for scramble mode and been there in that boat for 3 years. I keep hearing good things but have yet to swing in a scramble match.

Overall I give it 4 stars out of 5. (as a combo) I don't think anything will ever get a 5 in my book. Ball action on the greens, and yardages are the only cons. And everything else is a pro.
I would defiantly recommend this product as a combo or separately. Together they make a strong offering in the Simulator market. And for sure has a place in the top 5 on the market in all categories.

Of all the software that I have had the privilege to test, this is by far the top pick.

And TGC will have a great tour this winter for all those who want to test their skills against some of the greatest people you will ever have the chance to meet.

So now you will have choices,

Choose well my friends. See you online this winter.