Backspin (lack of) has become a big problem

[David Williams 'Chips']

Hello fellow sim golfers. I've had the skytrak around 4 years now and use TGC 2019 software. I've always loved it and still do, however, and the positive bit first, my game has improved significantly since I first had it, but now I'm getting more frustrated with it. Since, I've started striking it better, I'm getting punished more with crazy low backspin. On the course, my 9i is around 125 carry. On the sim yesterday for example, I carried it 160 and flew the green into water, with a backspin of around 3,000. I'm seeing it a lot lately and is a problem only with the more lofted clubs (maybe pw to 8i). I've seen some posts suggesting using a v small tee and I'll give it a go but any other suggestions? Can I amend any of the settings to get more normal backspin e.g. roughly 9,000 for 9i?

Thanks in advance
Dave

[wilson]

I regularly get 10,000 on my lob wedge, 6500 from a 7i with pro v1s. I use a split stance mat and divot hitting mat. ST in metal case at the mat height. 8 year old ST.

[Ronsc1985]

I don't have a Skytrak but I did have a Vector Pro which used the same two pictures and flight algorithm. For low ball speed high launch clubs the ball pictures overlap a lot and make it hard for the video processing to discern the ball rotation correctly. In the Vector Pro you could specify the time between images which made the ball pictures overlap a lot less so the picture analysis was a bit easier. Since in a Skytrak you can't change the time between pictures I'd try marking a line around the ball so the processing has an easier time finding the ball rotation. This problem is well known and is the reason camera LM's like a GC2 take multiple pictures on low lateral ball speed shots. In the case of a GC2 these type shots would have about 12 pictures taken.

[jpotas]

Very interesting, I have never heard of that before. The only issue is that if I draw a line it will transfer to my impact screen, I have been down that road before!! Maybe I can find a brand that has more marking or maybe even the balls that are 50/50 split into two colors??

Thanks for your input.

[Ronsc1985]

Very interesting, I have never heard of that before. The only issue is that if I draw a line it will transfer to my impact screen, I have been down that road before!! Maybe I can find a brand that has more marking or maybe even the balls that are 50/50 split into two colors??

Thanks for your input.

Some balls have an alignment bar built into the cover paint, The other thing you can try is put a line on your sim balls and then paint over the line with some clear polyurethane paint..

[wbond]

jpotas just to rule something out, i'd trying really scrubbing the wedge to make sure there's nothing in the grooves. If that doesn't work, try facing the alignment marker that's stamped on the ball and see if that improves. Whenever i hit driver or wedges on my skytrak, i always placed a logo towards the unit for these two clubs just to try and ensure a better reading. When i had my skytrak, i had a couple instances where you'd get a crazy low spin, but nothing like you're seeing.

[jpotas]

wbond, thank you for your input. Those numbers are with a freshly cleaned wedge. I actually always keep them very clean due to not wanting to transfer anything to my impact screen. Also, I very specifically faced the logo towards my Skytrak for this experiment. I have also tried the black alignment mark as well since it is darker and bolder. This along with the other issue that I posted about (Link Attached) in the Skytrak section has me really doubting my Skytrak right now.

https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/skytrak/382980-back-spin-and-side-spin-numbers-changing-when-reviewing-skytrak-data

[wbond]

jpotas is it only on high lofted wedges? What kind of spin do you get with PW or 9? If it's on those as well then you start to wonder does the age of the unit play a role?

[bthesea]

Even with spin at 8000+ rpm, the ball does not spin on greens. It always bounces out of the green. Is there a setting in TGC that could help? I am using green speed moderate and ang greens very soft.

[David Williams 'Chips']

Well this is a little embarrassing but I have seen the light. I did a proper test on the skytrak earlier to see just how much of a difference to backspin numbers, a different ball makes. I've been using TM practice balls for a while and get a lot of ridiculously low backspin with more lofted clubs. I can get maybe 3,000 with a PW. I decided to compare against Srixon AD333 balls and I was shocked with the difference. The PW for example, I was getting around 8,000. I will never use cheap balls on the sim again. Has anybody figured out the cheapest balls to get the best results with? Cheers 🍻

[wbond]

The kirkland ball is tough to beat at it's price point. It has a little too much spin on driver, but they last a long time.

[David Williams 'Chips']

Thanks wbond

[buckslayr]

I use the taylor made with all the little triangles on it, I never have to worry about lining it up,I do have low backspin also but I'm not good enough to know if its wrong.

[jpotas]

Well it turns out that there us nothing wrong with my Skytrak. I was playing TGC and cracked a Callaway and grabbed another ball and started noticing that I was stopping on the greens, even had a roll back a couple times. The difference was the ball. I had grabbed a Pro-V. Getting roughly 3-4 times the spin with a Pro-V vs the Callaway Supersoft. I though it was a fluke so I went back to the Skytrak range and starting going back and forth between a new sleeve of the Callaways and the Pro-V. Spin was consistently about 3 to 4 times higher with the Titleist with my 50 degree wedge. I was shocked as would have never thought that two premium (at least in my eyes) balls could be that different in spin.

One thing to note. I lost about a club length throughout my bag when switching back to the Pro-V's, I assume because of all the spin. It is very noticable right now as I have to be very careful when selecting clubs in TGC or I will be short. The Callaways for me, have much better distance, fly straighter (especially drives), but have much less stopping ability on approaches. This is going to be a struggle for me, I hate to give up the distance and straightness. Springtime will be interesting when the courses open up!!

[preludesam]

Awesome glad you figured it out! Yeah, when they say use a premium ball for short game spin it must have a urethane cover. It’s a massive difference of spin between a urethane cover and a surlyn cover on the Chromesoft.

The other issue I noticed was your launch angle. A good wedge strike should launch around 30 degrees. When you reduce the loft you compress the ball it into the face allowing it to grab and increase spin.

[Morini]

This is going to be a struggle for me, I hate to give up the distance and straightness.

But you'd be giving it up for the wrong reasons. Who really cares how far a given club goes. Just club up. All that matters is the getting to ball to stop near the hole ... and that requires that the ball carry the intended distance with the stopping power needed. As for straightness, isn't it the other way around? Higher spin total spin is less sensitive to spin axis?

[jpotas]

Seems to me that high spin off the driver always creates less distance. Plus if there is any side spin it tends to draw/hook or fade/slice more. That's how you work a ball left or right by creating side spin one way or the other.

[jpotas]

However you are correct about giving up on the Callaways. I probably won't because in real life my high launch and ball flight normally results in the ball stopping very close to my ball mark. Usually within 18" or so. It may be better to use the high spin for sim play in order to stop on the greens though!

[Morini]

Getting roughly 3-4 times the spin with a Pro-V vs the Callaway Supersoft.

It would take some very unique circumstances for spin to vary by 300-400% with different brand premium balls.

The fact that you were getting 44 degrees of spin with a 50 degree wedge is a clue that something is up. That is VERY high. The ball clearly rolled right up the face. Probably a combination of ball, matt, groove condition, and technique. I am surprised that hitting off a tee didn't increase spin and lower launch.

As interesting example, this instructor was completing a study when he noticed that the highest launching participants had worn grooves, and when he had them hit the same shot with a brand new wedge of equivalent loft, VLA dropped 10 degrees.

https://matthendersongolf.com/solving-the-puzzle-of-distance-wedges/

[jpotas]

My cbx wedges are all brand new this year so they are not worn. Plus I am using the same technique, hitting mat, club, etc when trialing both brands of balls. The only difference is the ball and the result difference is extremely repeatable. It does not even matter if it is not what I feel to be a well struck ball, the spin difference is undeniable.

The idea of worn grooves makes sense but it would affect both brands wouldn't it?

[Morini]

Yes, new wedges rules out worn club face. How does the launch angle change between balls and with or without tee? The high launch low spin is as mentioned, a classic example of ball rolling up the face. I wish there was more research around mats and spin. The ability to hit down is very important, and the good mats do just that. I always found it counterintuitive that spin goes up off a tee, but that has to do with the descending strike. I do think there is also a mat related friction component to spin and launch angle. I'd guess that you have a fairly shallow AoA, sim and outdoor, which explains high VLA, and also why hitting off short tee didn't change spin much. It doesn't matter in the end, other than Callaway not being a good sim ball for you. It would really be nice if spin normalization was added, either at the interface level or beyond that. I am sure that sim developers could do it if they wanted to. But for tournament play, there there would need to be anti-cheating safe guards.

[buckslayr]

i started trying for backspin, i can usually get it when i try,with pw or gap wedge. 8500-9500,it’s fun watching it backup,i’m pretty green but learning,taylor made pix balls