SkyTrak Game Improvement Package

[Smacc]

This is great but i'm a little worried about my initial game improvement package purchase. I was on of the first orders (pre ordered October of last year) and included the game improvement package. No where was it listed as a subscription and I also had this confirmed through an online chat with a skytrak rep that it was a one time fee. Reading this I don't know what to make of it or why I was sold something under false pretense. I'm a huge skytrak fan but this worries me.

[Tbernardmd]

Seth,

Are we going to get reimbursed for the game improvement package for the last year since it was not needed and everyone else had the same functionality without paying. Maybe a free year tacked on. I was an early adopter and have my package ending the first week of December. Thanks

[luv2golf]

mine does not show up there. Is it supposed to be there after we purchase or do we need to register

Honestly, I'm not sure. I thought you need to create a skygolf account and then create a skygofl 360 account.

It's the only way it's recognized (I believe)? Do you not have a skygolf 360 account?

I've had skycaddie since 2007 and skypro for 2 years, so when I logged onto my 360 account, it was in my skygolf account product page.

[Joko]

Skytrak and skygolf has a chance here to retain a lot of customers because of the price point of their launch monitor. However I agree, if they want to screw people with a poor subscription based model people will just wait until the next cheaper LM.

[Joko]

Or rather buy a more expensive LM with no subscription based model. Power to the people.

[Ookie]

SkyTrak definitely sold us the Game Improvement Package "under false pretense" per Smacc. I was not one of the super early adopters but in February I had called and chatted with SkyGolf reps directly and 'specifically' asked if the $99 for Game Improvement Package was a one-time or annual fee and was 'specifically' told it was a one-time fee before I purchased my SkyTrak in April. And in fact as recently as May the Game Improvement Package was still shown on SkyGolf's website as $99 (not $99 annual fee). So I believe SkyTrak/SkyGolf not only need to compensate early buyers of the Game Improvement Package for the lack of extra features (plus non-functioning sync) we got for paying the $99 but they must also compensate us for having sold the package to us under false pretences with wrong information from its reps which we used to make our purchase decisions.

The term "class action lawsuit" is often misused by people who do not understand it.

Still, it is very apropos here if they actually attempt to pull this.

They absolutely represented the game improvement packages as a one-time fee. If they try to shut it off on everyone, they are going to lose on that one, hard.

A law firm will definitely take it, as class actions are cash cows for lawyers. A law firm will take the case and get it certified as a class. They will then BILL THE HELL OUT OF IT. The settlement will involve something minimal for the plaintiffs (e.g. permanent access to the Game Improvement features--as we were promised) and a few million in legal fees to the firm that advances the case.

The non-functioning sync is actually another excellent angle. They CHARGED people for this, yet we have numerous acknowledgements by Skytrak that this feature is not working for a lot of people. For many of us, it either has never worked or not worked reliably. Their representatives have posted on this forum, seeking input from those who have had problems. In other words, this issue is WELL documented.

I really hope that they are reading this. Because if they do indeed pull this, I know of several lawyers who work at firms who will absolutely be interested in sticking it to them.

[jake]

Seriously?

[HarryG]

So if I get a crack team of lawyers together, can I get them to sue Ookie for being off topic?

Come on guys this is a WGT thread. I suggest Admin jump in to clean up this mess.

[Ookie]

So if I get a crack team of lawyers together, can I get them to sue Ookie for being off topic?

Come on guys this is a WGT thread. I suggest Admin jump in to clean up this mess.

So if I get a crack team of lawyers together, can I get them to sue Ookie for being off topic?

Come on guys this is a WGT thread. I suggest Admin jump in to clean up this mess.

Yes, this is a WGT thread. Your comment is so far off base that makes me question if you've even read the last couple of pages.

Numerous other posters brought up the fact that WGT will require the Game Improvement package in order to play it, and that Skytrak sold it to many of us as a one time fee, and that now the story has changed.

Moreover, if you haven't noticed, between this and the TGC thread, pricing is one of the primary concerns for just about everyone with regard to simulation software. I'd go as far as saying that pricing is THE most common topic of discussion on both threads.

The the one common theme you see from posters on both threads is that people don't want to get stuck into what is referred to in business as a "recurring revenue model." We want to pay one price and be done with it. And now, despite what we were told, it looks like it's going to happen at two separate levels.

So the answer is no, a "crack team of lawyers" would not take that case. Law is based on logic, and a decent lawyer is going to understand that the pricing of a required module to play WGT is very much relevant--as evidenced by the fact that about ten other posters have made substantive comments on the issue.

Perhaps you could find an ambulance chaser somewhere.

HarryG, I bet you were the guy that ran to the teacher and tattled on everyone in grade school.

[Ookie]

Rcush88, with respect, I don't think that you understand how class action lawsuits work. Let me explain how it works. While the term is overused, it's actually very appropriate here. Most class action lawsuits involve far less than $100 being involved. If the firm thinks that there is wrongdoing (and I absolutely think that these is a case here), they will be glad to take the case for free. They will move to get it certified as a class. Once they do, THE LAW FIRM RUNS UP HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN LEGAL FEES ON THE CASE. They then settle with the defendant for a de minimis (minimal) amount for each plaintiff AND OF COURSE, THE MASSIVE LEGAL FEES TOWARD FOR THE FIRM. Doublebogey, you should absolutely reach out to some law firms that have handled tech class actions before. I bet one of them takes the case!

[luv2golf]

Rcush88, with respect, I don't think that you understand how class action lawsuits work. Let me explain how it works. While the term is overused, it's actually very appropriate here. Most class action lawsuits involve far less than $100 being involved. If the firm thinks that there is wrongdoing (and I absolutely think that these is a case here), they will be glad to take the case for free. They will move to get it certified as a class. Once they do, THE LAW FIRM RUNS UP HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN LEGAL FEES ON THE CASE. They then settle with the defendant for a de minimis (minimal) amount for each plaintiff AND OF COURSE, THE MASSIVE LEGAL FEES TOWARD FOR THE FIRM. Doublebogey, you should absolutely reach out to some law firms that have handled tech class actions before. I bet one of them takes the case!

Really......is this where we have gone in this day in age? Sue? For what? $100. If you need the $100 that bad and really have that much time on your hands that you want to start a law suit, GET A HOBBY. This post is a joke and talk of a law suit is a joke.

SkyTrak_Seth has posted to PM him if you've been inconvenienced in the past year and he'll ensure your taken care of. Be happy with that, it's more than most companies would offer. I hope this thread doesn't now turn into a legal discussion. I feel if it does, I hope GSF_Admin removes any further posts.

[MrHogan]

I read seths message as PM if you STILL have an issue not if you were inconvenienced, have I misinterpreted that?

[luv2golf]

Maybe you should PM him and ask......

[jerry3]

I just read that the game improvement provides you a numeric display. Does this mean that the free skytrak app will no longer show the distance, ball speed, ball spin etc of each shot unless you have the GI package? I hope I'm misunderstanding that.

http://www.skytrakgolf.com/learn-more/wgt

[luv2golf]

I just read that the game improvement provides you a numeric display. Does this mean that the free skytrak app will no longer show the distance, ball speed, ball spin etc of each shot unless you have the GI package? I hope I'm misunderstanding that.

http://www.skytrakgolf.com/learn-more/wgt

The "numeric display" is a page you toggle from the main driving range. Tap the upper right hand corner tab.......2nd option down is "numeric display"

So to answer your question, you will not lose the driving range.

[FaultyClubs]

SkyTrak_Seth . I feel if it does, I hope GSF_Admin removes any further posts.

Why? Because you don't agree with him? Where does that kind of thinking lead us?

This thread is about the GI package and his comments were concerning the GI package. There are many aspects of the GI package worth discussing.

Really......is this where we have gone in this day in age? Sue? For what? $100. If you need the $100 that bad and really have that much time on your hands that you want to start a law suit, GET A HOBBY. This post is a joke and talk of a law suit is a joke.

So you think changing the GI from a one time purchase to every year for all time is only a "$100 issue"? Obviously you don't understand the true cost of subscriptions. Simply changing the GI from a one time fee to annual fee is an issue measuring in the thousands of dollars.

Also, how many people bought the Skytrak understanding the GI was a one time purchase and would NOT have bought the Skytrak if the GI was an annual subscription? For those people the true cost of this issue additionally includes the $2000 spent on the Skytrak.

I don't own the Skytrak, and if it requires subscriptions for TGC course play likely never will, but even I can see why some people feel this issue is bigger than merely $100.

[EDIT: I have no interest in lawsuits so these comments have nothing to do with that aspect, but the GI subscription or not and under what conditions it applies is definitely an issue amounting to thousands of dollars and I *am* interested in the outcome of that!]

[luv2golf]

Why? Because you don't agree with him? Where does that kind of thinking lead us?

This thread is about the GI package and his comments were concerning the GI package. There are many aspects of the GI package worth discussing.



So you think changing the GI from a one time purchase to every year for all time is only a "$100 issue"? Obviously you don't understand the true cost of subscriptions. Simply changing the GI from a one time fee to annual fee is an issue measuring in the thousands of dollars.

Also, how many people bought the Skytrak understanding the GI was a one time purchase and would NOT have bought the Skytrak if the GI was an annual subscription? For those people the true cost of this issue additionally includes the $2000 spent on the Skytrak.

I don't own the Skytrak, and if it requires subscriptions for TGC course play likely never will, but even I can see why some people feel this issue is bigger than merely $100.

Here's the deal here............you buy a skytrak or GC2. Those are the options in this price range. GC2 - $6,000 or Skytrak - $2,000.

Let's do that math here. 20 years of golf sim play at $100 a year = $2,000. So 20 year at $,2000 plus $2,000 Skytrak = $4,000. That's still a savings of $2K.

The $100/year fee is nominal. I'd rather pay that then $4,000 for a skytrak. I personally feel that Skytrak is undervalued and they could charge almost double than what they do

Again, these are all our personal views. And AGAIN to REPEAT. SEE SkyTrak_Seth post below:

http://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/skytrak/41230-skytrak-game-improvement-package-sync-issues

[doublebogey]

Wow was on a plane and missed all this - plus what happened in the 'SkyTrak and WGT' forum where I made a post agreeing with a gentleman regarding GI as one-time fee (saw all those posts got removed and missed all additional later posts).

I do somewhat agree w luv2golf that starting a class action lawsuit does seem a bit overboard but also do agree w Ookie that a suit could be launched if someone really wanted to launch one.

Now as someone w some law background, settlement is always the best outcome as no one wants a lawsuit. A fair settlement would probably be as follows:
- The no brainer is that SkyGolf must provide everyone who paid for the GI package 1-year free subscription the minute a subscription actually matters (I would think they're going to do that).
- Now regarding the one-time fee vs annual fee, SkyGolf did misled customers (in website as well as even worse in direct discussions and confirmations to customers by it reps). Of course as a customer would love SkyTrak to honor information they had provided to customers that it was a one-time fee and keep GI as a one-time fee for customers who bought GI before they changed on their website to annual fee but seriously doubt they would do that. A good compromise would be to tack on additional few years of free GI for customers would bought GI before they changed website to annual fee (I believe it's around mid to late May). This way SkyGolf can avoid potential class action suit by customers (as FaultyClubs mentioned $100 over like 10 years might cause people to sue especially if it's something simple like just 'joining' a class action suit) and will cost SkyGolf very little (few hundred bucks of lost annual fee for some of the early adopters not the worst thing in the world + might even garner some customer loyalty). So if they did this anyone who accepts few more years of free GI would not care to join (and SkyGolf can make it specific that they cannot join) a class action lawsuit which will leave them w maybe potentially a few really ticked off customers who might want to sue but way more costly for individual to sue than just joining a class action suit.

DISCLAIMER: Will not charge SkyGolf for this free legal advice =) but let's hope they do the right thing so they will not be needing any legal advice anyways.