A similar (very long) story to pass the time...

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  • DeaconBlooze
    Offline
    • Apr 2015
    • 128

    #1

    A similar (very long) story to pass the time...

    It's pretty easy for me to draw some parallels between what's happening with Skytrak, and some themes in one of my other favorite hobbies - pinball.

    Yes, they still make pinball machines. They never stopped! There was one company that carried the torch after most major manufacturers ducked out in 1999. They're still in the game, and the only "real" pinball manufacturer in the world - Stern Pinball. The hobby has picked up some steam in the last 5 or so years, which is where some of the parallels begin to take shape...

    There was an opening for competition, since Stern had operated since 2000 without any real competition at all. Jersey Jack Pinball was born, and made several promises - one of the most infamous being that their game would not ship without completed code (software). Code is integral to the machine, and one of the complaints many hobbyists shared about Stern Pinball - they would deliver games in a timely manner (no small feat), but failed to deliver games with completed code, meaning that consumers were playing buggy games with incoherent or boring rules. Every game is different, and the rules in a pinball machine can be surprisingly varied - learning the rules is hugely important to understanding that there's more to the game than preventing the ball from draining... but I digress..

    Jersey Jack (JJP) announced that it would produce the Wizard of Oz as their first machine, and put together a seemingly realistic production schedule. People quickly parted ways with $7500 (or abouts) in order to gain a place in line. It ended up taking nearly 3 years to ship an actual game, and code took another 1.5 years to become adequate. You'd think they'd learn their lesson, but somewhere close to 3 years ago, they announced The Hobbit as their second game. They started taking preorder money for that game, well before anyone had received their Wizard of Oz machine... Bold. There have been several rumors about whether or not they have the money to complete The Hobbit, and to date, no one has received this title.

    To understand why people would dish out this kind of money into something unproven, you really have to look no further than where we stand with Skytrak. People were ready to shake things up, there was excitement over creating competition in the market. Unfortunately, the burden of giving these companies a kickstart is often placed on the consumer. In pinball, things got much darker than what I've described above...

    Besides JJP, there were other companies (or individuals) entering the arena near the same time. One of those was John Papaduik. He was a well-known designer at one of the companies that decided to pull out of pinball in the 99. He first announced one game, and took preorder money (somewhere near 10k each), then another game, and took more money, and then a 3rd game, and took more money. It was recently discovered that there was no way he could even deliver the first game, and it looks as though anyone that has money in on any of his games is out of luck. I believe they're exploring legal action now, but this scumbag is STILL accepting money from unsuspecting hobbyists, even after he had been outed. He plays dumb, though he may legitimately be stupid, that doesn't mean he's not a criminal.

    Another one - there was a company started by a couple of young guys, and they planned on creating a Predator pinball. They eventually got all of their preorder money for a limited run of machines, but it was discovered that they never had the licensing approval.. It was also questionable whether they'd ever be able to fulfill their orders, even if the licensing had gone smoothly. This is another one that has disappeared with nearly a million dollars worth of money.

    Another one... There's a company that popped up before all of the doomsday scenarios above. They promised to deliver a Big Lebowski pinball machine. It was a "grail" theme for me, so I actually jumped in on this one. They had promised delivery of the first games in Q2 2015. I gave them a little bit of time, but considering I had 8500 invested into this machine, my patience was wearing thin, particularly because of what was starting to happen to the other "boutique" pinball manufacturers. I waited to see the machine at the pinball expo in fall, and after seeing that not much progress had been made from the year before, I decided to pull out. I had a bad feeling about leaving my money in with an overseas company, and I regret ever getting in in the first place. This machine looks like it will eventually be delivered, but when is anybody's guess.

    One good one to end it - Spooky Pinball threw their hat into the ring a little before the Big Lebowski guys. They were up front, and provided an ACTUAL realistic production schedule. Their games were reasonably priced (something like 6k, compared to others at 10k), and they were always up front with customers. They delivered all of their games (I'm pretty sure they're finishing up the last models now), and have announced their second pin - Rob Zombie. This is one of the few companies in the hobby that people trust, and for good reason.

    Sorry for all of that, but I think it's interesting to see some stories from other hobbies. Stern still catches a lot of complaints about their code at release, but they've come a long way since some competition entered the hobby. Hopefully Skytrak will get a fire lit under them at some point, too..
  • Swarm99
    Member
    • Feb 2016
    • 36

    #2
    The company I first thought about when reading about Skytrak has a complete different track record. As a guitar player and a golfer, guitar amps and pedals are costly. Digital algorithms were always poor substitutes for the real thing. A company called Fractal Audio came along and changed the game. Now 100% authentic sounds can be relieved from a single rack mount digital gear. It's flagship product was also in the same price area as Skytrak at $2k. I don't know much about Skytrak management and its software development process at this point. I do know that I see Skytrak employees posting on here answering questions which is cool. Fractal has their own message board and it is very active. What drives their success is the drive of the owner of the company who settled for nothing less than perfection. He is also the lead developer. Over time he has hired several software and firmware developers to assist as they have grown as a company. In the last 4 years they have released over 90 firmware updates for the flagship unit. 75% of these releases have been enhancements and new features. He could have set back and done 25% of the work he did and it would still be a very good product at the price point, but the owner didn't settle for okay, he wanted to be great and he has a deep passion for what he does. Now the company really has no other competition (at any price point) in my opinion; analog guitar gear is no longer superior but just an alternate nostalgic route. The owner personally answers questions on their forum; customer service is top notch. Skytrak, while its hardware is not as capable as some of their more expensive competitors, but if their employees and management have a similar passion for product improvement they could dominate the market and eventually knock out most of their competition. I have read where their customer service should be better, but if they really embrace the online model of email and message boards I think it will help. It just depends on the companies ownership/leadership/developers. (And I do not understand it yet)

    One more thing; even with Fractal, when a new product or firmware version is announced, people get super impatient and start complaining when they have to wait more than a few days. Even though all firmware updates are completely free! No annual fee. They do have public betas for many of their firmware releases after beta testers have tested it. Just drawing parallels.
    Last edited by Swarm99; 02-05-2016, 11:47 PM.

    Comment

    • fortysixandtwo
      Advanced Member
      • Nov 2015
      • 491

      #3
      Hey Deacon, I was following the lewbowski build on the pinside forum. I really want one of those rugs that they showed in the pics. :-) But yeah, early adopters either get screwed, or have to suffer through growing pains. Can you imagine a skytrak buyer 6 months from now? They will have no idea what beta skytrak users had to endure...(hopefully)

      Comment

      • ernie18
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2015
        • 122

        #4
        i agree there are growing pains to be incurred. but there are a lot of ways to help with that. IE communication. Now I know they cant release everything because of lame "contractual obligations" but there are ways around that without coming out and saying it.

        Comment

        • DeaconBlooze
          Offline
          • Apr 2015
          • 128

          #5
          Thanks to those that responded, I honestly was expecting the whole thread to fade into the either. Then again, we are all growing impatient, and simply want something to talk about.


          Swarm99 That's a good story. I truly believe that honesty is possibly the most profitable core competency, particularly in direct-to-consumer industries such as this.

          fortysixandtwo That's crazy we span both of these hobbies! The rug was a cool preorder benefit, as was the 500 discount (which turned out to be closer to 1k..), but the chrome trim was a deterrent to me. The ambiguous timeline is ultimately what drove me away. What a shame, because I really wanted that game, but I'm not currently convinced that it's worth almost 10k..

          Comment

          • Gamble Gamble
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2015
            • 128

            #6
            This is exactly why forums like these are gold. If I had to deal with ST issues without having the expectation I would go bonkers. Doing minimal research on this site can save sooooo much headache.

            However, if I shelled out 10k and the product was never delivered, people I know from low places would be hitting the thief in low places.

            Think of me as a "job creator" in that scenario.

            Comment


            • luv2golf
              luv2golf commented
              Editing a comment
              Really..........so your a baller too?

            • Gamble Gamble
              Gamble Gamble commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes, I have been very fortunate in my life. I use to be a professional bowler.

              I won the 1996 Reno Odor Eaters Open. I bowled 3 consecutive strikes to win but the 2nd place guy somehow stole my ex-girl Claudia and left me Munson'ed with my winnings.
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