Comparing Simulator Software for SkyTrak

[SDL]

An important decision for new SkyTrak users is choosing among several software options for golf course simulation. Currently, The Golf Club (TGC) and World Golf Tour (WGT) are available through the SkyTrak website, and Perfect Golf (PG) and E6 from TruGolf are expected very soon. Individual SkyTrak threads exist for these sim options, but opinions about which sim is the best often cause these threads to drift off topic. It is hoped that this thread will provide GSF members with an opportunity to express their opinions about the advantages and disadvantages of each sim option for use with SkyTrak.

As the GSF Forum Rules make clear, "We appreciate passion, as well as different viewpoints, and we hope to see both in our forums. But each of these ideals can be served without hostility. So, like the sport of golf, we will expect courtesy and respect." The intent of this discussion of sim software comparisons is to promote the expression of passion and diverse opinions, but to do so with goodwill and fairness.

[Bogey33]

I have been using TGC since it came out....and I must say that it has been great, even better now that I have a new laptop that can handle the software. Once the phantom shots and the unregistered shots are corrected, along with fine tuning distances, this will be an even better sim option each year.

[st_golfer]

TGC has the advantage of being a more mature product. The game is stable, and they have a strong server farm to support the online needs of a big user base.

But having played Perfect Golf via the mouse now, it is as good in terms of the game physics and playability as TGC. TGC has many more courses available to it right now, including many good replicas of famous courses. PG will have its own course builder as well, and already has a couple of recreations of famous courses that are at worst equal to their TGC counterparts. It is not a stretch to think that in time that having quality courses will be a push when comparing these two.

PG is much more friendly for local multiplayer, with the ability to have multiple tee boxes and to save multiple local players. These are items that hopefully TGC will integrate.

TGC got out of the gate first, and that is a big advantage. But what I find telling is that I do not know of a single beta tester for PG that would go back to TGC. Even when you factor in the bias that a volunteer beta tester would have, this is a sign that the release for PG will be good.

Both of these need a good computer to play at the highest level of detail. That is just something everyone will have to factor in. PG will be available for Mac via simulator which is a plus.

The biggest point in favor of PG right now is the price. They will be half of what a TGC subscription is ($250 vs. $479). It is a downside that there is no model now to have a permanent license for PG, something I hope they will deal with. But you can bet strongly if/when they do it would be less than $995 for TGC. If they do that, and if PG proves to be the equal to TGC in terms of game play, Pro Tee will have no choice but to bring down the cost of TGC to be competitive. And that will be a win for everyone.

As for E6, having the playable simulator demo is a big plus over both TGC and PG. But outside of that there is nothing I see that would make me pick it. More cost for the game and no ability to create your own course and a massive fee to add the few new courses they do offer.

While I think in the long run PG will be the better game, I have TGC and am happy with it. I will have both as I have friends that play both. Both will push each other and we all will be winners in the end.

[SDL]

st_golfer, given that you have TGC and are happy with it, were there any surprises with the sim version that weren't apparent in playing TGC with a mouse on the PC? Will you also be buying/leasing PG when it is released?

[st_golfer]

The mouse version of TGC is the same game as the Pro Tee version. The only difference is that the courses made on the pro tee version won't be available to consoles, and the reverse is only true sporadically. That and for some reason the accuracy of my shots on the mouse version is much better, must be a glitch in the sim version it couldn't be me...

Yes I will be getting PG when it comes out. The price point is much better and it has a ton of potential. The integration of critical local multiplayer features and multiple tee boxes is huge to me. Their course builder is supposed to use LIDAR data which could make for some awesome replica courses in the future. There is a growing online community of its own not unlike these forums and they are getting their own tour going. A lot of positives and promise.

From there, I don't know. Time will tell.

[SDL]

It's great to hear that TGC is working out well. If you have a computer that can handle the software, I think it's the best of the current sims that ST features on its website (i.e., WGT and TGC). With respect to a full sim using ST, I've only been able to try WGT and the E6 demo. E6 clearly is more like playing real golf than WGT, although WGT has some great courses. The main problem with WGT is that the camera angles are not realistic and you never feel really immersed in the golf experience. The lack of local multiplayer with WGT is also a disappointment. There are putting and chipping problems with both WGT and the E6 demo on the ST.

I think the 2 main contenders right now for best ST sim are TGC and Perfect Golf. I've played both on my PC, but neither with the ST. PG seems more natural and less like a video game to me than does TGC - at least on the PC. TGC has a massive number of courses, but many are not well-made or easy to play as a sim due to their length, fixed tees, fixed green speed, and tight fairways. The ProTee courses are well-matched to sim use, though, and I've enjoyed playing Magnolia and Whistling Straits on my PC. I've also heard very positive things from ST users who have been able to demo PG on the ST, but it hasn't been officially released yet so I haven't been able to try it myself.

I'd love to hear more TGC vs. PG comparisons from those who have used both as a sim with ST!

[ghopper8]

I think the other thing to consider is support, who has better support TGC or PG ???

[SDL]

I hear lots of good things about ProTee support for TGC. I know there are some start-up bugs in the ST-TGC integration for some users, but ST and ProTee are working to get these problems fixed. I don't know much about PG support since the ST integration isn't out yet and I haven't needed to contact the PG folks to get support for the PC game itself.

[SDL]

A question for those who have used their ST with the sim interfaces for TGC, E6, and PG: Do any of them list the measured ST shot data (eg, ball speed, backspin, and launch angle) on the screen after each shot? WGT does list some shot data at the bottom of the screen after each shot, but it disappears so quickly that I often miss it. How do TGC, E6, and PG compare?

[wbond]

TGC lists it, and i think you can change the settings for how long it's displayed.

[Shardak]

TGC displays it after each shot by default, for 5 seconds. This can be changed to not show the data after each shot, which I recommend. I believe you can also change the duration if you do want to see it.

At any time in the game, you can hit the i key to see the data for the last shot played.

So best setup is to disable shot info, so it does not pop up after each shot, and just hit 'i' if you want to view it. Makes TGC feel more real, and is faster to complete a round without having to wait an extra 5 seconds for each shot.

[SDL]

Based on the input from wbond and Shardak, it looks like TGC has several data display options. I searched on YouTube for videos of TGC on ST, and the data is displayed in a large box covering the middle of the screen. The data displayed include the measured data (LA, ball speed, spin, etc.) as well as estimated data, although there are also estimates regarding club path and smash factor that can't be calculated from the actual ST data (but these can be ignored). I also viewed some E6 videos that displayed a similar central box on the screen for data after each shot. However, I couldn't find any video for PG on ST that showed launch, spin, or ball speed data after a shot. Does anyone know if the PG interface for ST will allow display of this type of shot data?

[Tekbud]

In PG on the range shot display data appears after every shot - launch angle, spin, sidespin,carry and distance. In a round carry and distance are shown.

[bionicboogerboy]

WGT:
- Not a viable product. If they ever get it to PC and have it so you can direct connect it might be fun to play from time to time.

PG:
- I have it as a PC game on steam and played it at the PGA show. It has a lot of bugs still. It probably won't be released anytime soon. The graphics are good but I like TGC's graphics better. If they can get the bugs it could be the go to software as it has the options that E6 has but with better graphics.

TGC:
- Wow, I love this software. Graphics are the best on the market. The rival system is incredible. I like the fact you can play against your own previous rounds or play agains live players online simultaneously without waiting for your opponent to play. It lacks options though. If they ever get it so you can select tee boxes, green speeds, course firmness, rough penalty etc, this will be the only software anyone would buy.

E6:
- If TGC or PG never came out, we would be excited over E6 1.6 graphics. But now that we know the difference, E6 graphics are below industry standards. However, E6 is loaded with options that TGC doesn't have. I run a 12 man league in our showroom and we use E6. Some of these players are real hackers. We make everything so easy for these guys by removing rough penalty, auto align putting arrow and change the firmness of the course. Also each player can create their own profile for handicapping and to see their previous rounds and stats. If this group played on TGC, they would take 2 hours longer to play and since it doesn't allow for multiple profiles we would have to calculate the handicaps using a separate software. E6 graphics are garbage but it is still the most complete software on the market and we will continue to use it until TGC has more options.

[Opticsguru]

bionicboogerboy (nice nick) summed up nicely. I wouldn't touch wgt. (Total waste of time). TGC is decent. E6 is also very decent but a bit outdated. PG is questionable. If it ships in my lifetime I will be surprised.

[st_golfer]

Hope you plan on living longer than 2-3 weeks then. All signs point to end of this month at the latest. Perfect Parallel have said they are ready to go just waiting on Sky Golf.

[Opticsguru]

st_golfer my trust in SkyGolf is nil. If it is depending on a skygolf it is even worse than depending on just PG. Doing these types of games are hard and PG has been working on it for several years. The thing is in beta at least two years as far I know, is it shipping in good quality in a few weeks, I really do not think so. Can they put something out and frustrate the hell out of us? Oh yeah....

[SDL]

st_golfer, I hope you are right about a PG release in 2-3 weeks. I also hope that PG and ST have learned how to avoid the glitches that some users experienced when the ST interface for TGC was released recently.

[ernie18]

i just want to chime in.

i like e6 and enjoy playing wade hampton but it just doesnt do it for me anymore.

i have found myself playing wgt more often now. Yes the camera angles suck sometimes, but at the end of the day youre still making shots to get it on the green.

[doublebogey]

Problem w WGT is when your ball ends left in the rough hard to tell whether you pulled it or hooked it w the angle + the shot data disappears so quickly.

[ernie18]

i do agree with this. i also wish there was a replay option.

[SDL]

In WGT, is there any way to set a longer delay before the shot data disappears? Apparently, this can be done in TGC.

[Tekbud]

In the end the consumer is the real winner here. Many of you will remember a post I put out a while back exclaiming that the golf sim market was about to really change and i believe I was right (my timing was just a hair off). While perfect golf hasn't released yet I believe it will be soon. I have been beta testing for a few months now and have really enjoyed it. The game as It stands right now is very solid.

That being said, I also purchased TGC last week and have enjoyed some great rounds on some great courses. I like to have options and with the skytrak app, wgt, tgc, and pg I have them. Less than a year ago all we had was the skytrak range. How incredible is that? To be honest I love the skytrak range still to this day and was overwhelmed the first time I used it!!

I don't want to go into a long comparison but the truth is each of these has its advantages.

In my opinion:

TGC has a great course selection, wonderful graphics, an awesome rival/ghost system and it's simply quite fun to play.

WGT is simply lagging behind, but it's very cheap...

e6 hasn't released yet but Wade Hampton will always have a special place in my heart...

Perfect Golf has multiple tees and pins, different green speeds, and solid graphics. My hopes are very high for the future of Perfect Golf but only time will tell. It will be reasonably inexpensive but looks to be an annual pass when released so in the end folks who like to buy and not rent may want to look elsewhere. Every one of these products is very inexpensive compared to anything found in the home just a few years ago.

SkyTrak_Seth - thank you for producing an awesome device at an awesome price that has truly changed the sim game. I'm so happy I bet on you. It's been challenging, but in the end, you've done it. Bravo.

i hope that I'm not upsetting the apple cart here. I'm not biased towards any hardware or software (well maybe skytrak) I believe competition is Great for the consumer and I want all of these products to improve. Just as ten years ago so few people had areas in their house dedicated to home theaters and now they are everywhere, I believe in just a few years the same will hold true for golf sim rooms in homes. Skytrak and these great software packages could really change golf as we know it.

As long as they do, I'll be buying more.

[SDL]

Tekbud, thanks for the honest answer to my question. It appears that Aja's assumptions about your purchasing behavior were poorly formulated.

[FaultyClubs]

I have both PG and TGC sims and find the "playing fun factor" high in both. I'd be happy with either one and even happier with both. The main downside I see with PP is the price. $250/yr annual subscription quickly adds up to real money. Regardless, if I had to choose only one today I'd probably choose TGC. It's a lot of fun to play and the course selection is very nice (I even like some of the console courses).

[SDL]

FaultyClubs, thanks for the comments. If both TGC and PG had a demo that worked with ST, I'd be trying both for sure. And I wish that TGC had a cheaper subscription option and that PG was planning an outright purchase option at a fair price. The more options the better for us as consumers.

[SDL]

For those who have been able to use both TGC and PG with SkyTrak, are there any significant differences in chipping or putting between those two sims?

[goatbarn]

Tekbud is spot on with his comments. TGC greens are less firm and slower.

[FaultyClubs]

I also find the TGC greens slower. Which is fine by me as it's closer to the courses I play, not many with stimp of 10. Also I'm not a fan of short game/putting on a sim so prefer easier!

I generally find greens easier to read on PG (I think they also tend to be flatter) and I love PG'sr Break Line Indicator (BLI) so the stimp of 10 in PG is fine too. It's easy to change in PG if one doesn't like it, I haven't found where to change in TGC (not sure it is even possible).

[SDL]

You guys are great! Your insights and practical experiences with the ST sims are really valuable for those of us who have only been able to play the PC versions of TGC and PG.

[liturbo]

SDL I am very happy with TGC. It works well and many of the courses are very well done and fun. I was lucky enough to not have any of the integration issues that others experienced-that is, ST and TGC worked very well for me from the start. Also, protee's customer service and resposiveness is great. I also have to say that the ball dynamics for me are so close to my IRL play that it is hard to believe that a $2,000 ball launch monitor and $1,000 software package could provide such an accurate simulation of real golf. I have a few quibbles such as difficulty at times getting TGC to read putts and certain chips, occassional disconnect from the ST box and need to restart the software every now and again be cause the software gets hung up. I have a few not so minor complaints like the awkward way you have to line up shots and figure out distances to hit the ball. E6 has a much better system for lining up shots and figuring out distance--it uses a superimposed map of the entire hole which allows for immediate feedback regarding distances and alignment. It also provides a clear and real time display of the remaining distance to the pin. TGCs course map is a static image that doesn't update distances from the ball to the pin and it cant be used to change your alignment. To align shots you have to pick clubs with assigned distances that equate to the distance you think you want to hit the ball and somewhat blindly aliign your shot. Then you have to zoom to see where the ball would land at that distance and the alignment you have chosen. This is a slow and irritating way to have to figure out distance and alignment--if you don't like where the ball will land after zooming in you have to go through the whole process again. This is way to cumbersome and seriously slows down play. The menus are also awkward and could be streamlined-there are not enough shortcuts. Some actions require too many keystrokes. Other than that it is a nice sim and I for one have been happy with my purchase.

[SDL]

Great comments! Thanks for all the helpful info!!!

[SDL]

I noticed that there have been several TGC vs. PG putting comparisons on the PG subscription thread, but it would be even more helpful to have those types of comparison discussions on this thread. There are still relatively few ST users that have the sim versions of both TGC and PG, but that may change as soon as PG is released for ST. Because ST appears to have slightly different sensitivity to low speed shots or high launch lobs compared with GC2, the experiences of GC2 users (using either PG or TGC software) may not always be identical to that of ST users.

I'm really looking forward to more direct comparisons by ST users based on soft chips, high lobs, and putts. I would especially like to know if the ST version of the PG interface includes any tweaks that help the ST perform at its best. I know that PG and TGC for ST have putting modes that tell the cameras what to look for on the upcoming shot, but I don't know if there are also tweaks that help pick up soft chips or lobs better on PG or TGC than on the ST range or WGT.