Bushnell & Foresight are partnering up for a new consumer level launch monitor.
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Bushnell Announces Launch Pro Partnership with Foresight Sports
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Bushnell Announces Launch Pro Partnership with Foresight Sports
In partnership with Foresight Sports, Bushnell Golf will be entering the domestic launch monitor market later this year with the Launch Pro, a personal launch monitor built on the industry’s best and most widely accepted technology. “Bushnell Golf is committed to innovation, technology advancements and supporting the golfing consumer as they build confidence in their game. The Launch […]Tags: None
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People just need to realize there is 0% chance of Foresight cannibalizing Quad sales by releasing a cheaper unit that has club data. It WILL be missing key club metrics. I would expect nothing more than club head speed, to be honest.
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I had a conversation with a Foresight rep recently. The unit is promising and how it will be sold outside of the US seems to be a little different. The rep I spoke with is a friend and thus, I am not sure how much I was told I can share. However, from a pricing perspective I believe someone could contact a local rep outside of the US and have their names added to a pre order list. You should be provided with a price that includes the software purchase. I believe the rep should also let you know the club head parameters that will be measured (it is more than one, but not by much).
there are some things from the conversation that surprised me, but actually in a good way. The precision of the data for club parameters will likely not be as tight as the QUAD.
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Interesting. I won’t press you to over share.
I’m in Canada and spoke to a friend of a friend that is a rep and to his knowledge the reps weren’t the distribution channel nor did he have any details on the specifications. Curious if Canada gets same approach as US which excludes the reps (maybe direct from Bushnell). I did connect with him a few weeks ago so maybe he’d have more info now but I don’t want to hound him as I don’t really know him and it didn’t sound like there is a sale in it fit him.
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I was just told that I could get my name on the list. No details on the delivery timing or anything like that. I was told the pricing and what I would get. For obvious reasons, I am not looking to change, but I should also note that I would have considered something like this a few years ago (as I did with the QUAD) and who knows which way I would have gone, given the pricing compared with WUAD and TM4. However, my current set-up is in an area that I could rent out and should I ver decide to rent and move into my tighter space with better ceiling height, then my name would go on the list for one of these.
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Dax,
If you can share, great. If not, no issues. Question is did your rep state that the data for club parameters would not be as tight for the Quad only, or did he include the GC2/HMT as part of that conversation.
I still maintain a GC2 will retain its value given the HMT add-on option, vs. buying this new device and then having to upgrade later at roughly 8 to 10K to get detailed club data from the Quad.
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I think GC2 with HMT will still hold its value, but that the GC2 component of the equation may drop. First off the data parameters will be less. Also, on the accuracy front they will not be as tight as the to the level of quality and accuracy that the QUAD gets. However, I was told it will still be good. There is a reason as to why, which I believe will be obvious as more details are released. In my opinion, for home use most will be happy. I do note that I would not be upset if I had bought a QUAD from the info I received.
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I think I'm picking up what you're putting down in terms of accuracy. I'd have to guess any clubhead measurements wont be as accurate because the third camera is face on instead of more in front and angled like on hmt or the GCQuad, correct?
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Originally posted by Dax View PostI had a conversation with a Foresight rep recently. The unit is promising and how it will be sold outside of the US seems to be a little different. The rep I spoke with is a friend and thus, I am not sure how much I was told I can share. However, from a pricing perspective I believe someone could contact a local rep outside of the US and have their names added to a pre order list. You should be provided with a price that includes the software purchase. I believe the rep should also let you know the club head parameters that will be measured (it is more than one, but not by much).
there are some things from the conversation that surprised me, but actually in a good way. The precision of the data for club parameters will likely not be as tight as the QUAD.
Edit: here is the link to the actual web page that shows the GC3. No more information, but I was able to download the webpage offline using chrome so I could get a better look at it.
Maybe someone else who is better with computers can figure out what else they are hiding on there.
Last edited by dinospumoni; 08-25-2021, 01:27 AM.
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Yup, looks like it
Not sure how much more info that gives us though as that seems to just be HLA which I would think is a given with what else is currently out there.
Edit: Looks like the data is identical to what is on the launch pro on the first page of this thread. The only thing different is there are side spin and backspin numbers in the picture from the foresight Europe website.Last edited by dinospumoni; 08-25-2021, 01:54 AM.
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It seems logical that all the ball parameters will match GC4 and at presumably close to the level of accuracy if not the same.
For club data I’ve been under the impression the entire time it’s club head speed and possibly AoA simply to match Mevo+. Even if somewhat less accurate (presumably the missing camera has an impact on club data) once they put in path/face it really hits GC4 perceived value in my opinion so they won’t do that. The CEO of Flightscope effectively said Mevo+ could do face and path (no comment on accuracy) but his team changed the topic quickly and the current response is now won’t happen which I think is likely as much about X3 protection versus being worried it’s a bit too inaccurate.
I think with the pandemic all these companies are looking hard at min/maxing profit by exploring volume versus margin. I don’t know how much the actual hardware cost is but it’s simple math that at a point more volume at lower margin wins over low volume but high margin. Look no further than Walmart versus the Bay (sorry Canadian reference but I don’t know a big US retailer that tried to stay big box high price while watching competitors do the opposite only to go bankrupt). I think these companies see now as the time to reasses strategy with golf interest surging. I said a couple years ago that in 5 years I expect to spend $5k and get accurate club/ball data and received many disagreements. I’m actually thinking my estimated timeline was too long now.
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I really hope they give club path. If it is basically just a gc2 that gives clubhead speed I'll probably just buy a used GC2 since at least with the GC2 I'd be able to add HMT at a later date if I wanted.
Angle of attack would be more useful than clubhead speed, but I think I'd still probably just go with the GC2 unless the Launch Pro is really a steal.
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Hi All,
I got in touch with a foresight rep I was contacting about finding me an HMT in Canada. Figured I’d ask about the new unit. Here is the response I got
The new Foresight / Bushnell will be marketed in Canada as the GC3, and will be sold with FSX software + 10 standard courses.
A fully unlocked GC3 will be on sale for $9100 (+ provincial taxes and shipping fees from Ontario to you).
There will also be an option to have some Premium courses, which will include Pebble Beach, St. Andrews, Valderrama and Carnoustie ($ 1950).
For now, all of these units will have the full feature set and software access unlocked, they are also fully compatible with all available apps and software. For the US market (Bushnell) some features will be locked out and users will have to choose which feature they want to purchase. At the moment we are excluded from that decision , that may change in the future, whether for them or for us.
Measured Data - All GC2 data for the ball, and with one "Dot" on the face of the club it will provide club head speed, club head trajectory, smash factor and angle of attack.
it looks like the bushnell version will only be available in the US and will allow some type of pay for features you want.
I imagine prices quoted are in CAD, but I’ll try getting clarification on that one.
cheers
Alex
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This is accurate to most of the information that I was told. Club path is the measurement in question for one of the commenters below. Pricing you provided is what I was told in Cdn dollars and as noted is all in including the software. At a 1.3 exchange rate this leaves me to believe the unit itself is about US$4500.
Glad someone else was able to get most of what I discussed as well.
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Confirming this is identical to what I have been told about the unit in AUS. Identical message, but for $11.5k AUD (10ish CAD). Difference I suspect is our taxes and import charges. (we have a 10% GST here, could be the reason. Not sure how taxes work).
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Hi Everyone
So if alexsmith11 is right, this is just an upgrade of the 10 year old product.
I think old GC2 prices will rise now, its a better unit since you can add HMT.
Foresight will tie this thing up to its shite software, so nothing to see here.
Skytrak & mevo + can start laughing again.
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A big part of me likes the thought of owning a new device versus a 10 year old model but I guess if they’ve worked for 10 years they should for another 5-10 (assuming any parts that need replacing have sources other than Foresight if they stop stocking them).
That is a lot of money for software as I keep thinking on it for a “consumer” device. I’ve never used the sim side and I don’t know what type of combine and practice features it has but the range part looks fine (but $3k for a range is obviously poor value).
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Yep agree. I’m happy with my FR1 demo for range work and TGC2019 for sim play on my GC2. I was hoping the software would be more flexible in the sense of picking the modules you want and pay a monthly fee. Very possible this will be offered later when foresight launches the new FSX, but I guess they are trying to max out sales of the existing version until then.
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For comparison sake and in all fairness to foresight, what they are offering up is really a great deal compared to them selling the GC2.
a new GC2 from foresight was also forced to be sold with FSX and I think the price was $8400 add to that a HMT for an additional $6k (I know they had that sale, but that was an exceptional deal)
the GC3 will be say $7500 and includes simple HMT measurements (1-dot) and FSX.
so from that standpoint, it’s a steal. But this is just me justifying it to myself
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New Gc2 was 6500 and yes you had to purchase 3k of software to get it. 9500.
It still appears 4 eyes are better than 3 so Gc2/HMT is still a better product. I would think it would continue to hold value since it always was the gold standard imo.
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Wizard of Coz yeah but you aren't mentioning the fact that the HMT unit was another $5k on top of the $9,500 lol.
So yeah of course a launch monitor that costs double the price of the other is gonna be much better.
Why would you pay double the price for a worse product?
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Does anyone know if Foresight cut people a deal if you upgraded 2018 FSX to 2020? There were rumors that FSX was going to completely revamp their graphics on the new FSX but who knows when that will happen and/or if it's even true.
Does this mean if you choose to go with 1 dot- you can then purchase any 3rd party sim software? Or will this be locked to only a couple of softwares they approve?
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Hi
I GC3 is $7250 including range software.
The unit is not $4250 as no one will be able to purchase anything from foresight/bushnell for that price.
How much more will it cost to upgrade to GCquad with full Club data from GC3 compared to adding HMT to GC2?
Why don't foresight just leave things as they are, GC2 add HMT then go Quad.
I can't see foresight SIM software being around in 5 years time, just not good enough lacks features and pricey, 500 for a course, I had enough of pebble after 2 weeks of playing on my own.
TGC2019 is just so much better because of the on-line experience.
In europe, you have to add 20 to 23% VAT onto the £6999/€7250 price, so even if GC3 is unlocked you need to spend around 9K before you are able to buy E6 or TGC2019 etc...
Will partnering with Bushnell just mean that foresight can get rid of some staff like reps and customer support?
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Are they saying you will likely need to buy the fsx software with the gc3 or will yo7 be able to get excluding for $4,500 approx
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Hi
You'll never get anything from foresight for $4,500.
It'll be at least $7250 before you can access/purchases 3rd party software.
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^
Real shame too, really kills the value. It will be interesting to see how the third party market shakes out for the GC3. GC2s were so plentiful without the software because there was a time when Foresight didn't require the bundle. Why would anyone sell their GC3 but hold on to the software? And if that ends up as the case, the GC2 will always be the better buy.
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Hi Celeras
What we know is Foresight can sell GC3 for 4k if they want and a GC2 for less, which is good news.
I don't think patent protection lasts forever, maybe 15 or 20 yrs, and one thing china is very good at is copying things.
Looking forward to the next 5 yrs in this space, covid obviously held developments back a little.
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GC2 is better value, but can't say I'd be mad about getting most of what Quad offers for half the price ($18000 CAD for GCQ without club data) even if FSX is crap. Total works out to about $10200 plus shipping while a GC2 without HMT runs around $6500.
Have to wait and see what third-party software options are offered (if any) and how the club data points stack up against HMT/GCQ but for new hardware, no flash modules and warranty coverage, this actually doesn't seem all that bad.
Anybody know if it has Quad's built-in shank protection?Last edited by bubbtubbs; 08-26-2021, 03:36 PM.
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Gresh12 I am with you on this. At the CAD price you are referencing wouldnt you just go with EyeXo? You get more club data and can utilize any 3rd party you like. Pros and cons to every LM. If space is not an issue and am okay with not bringing it with me to range- i rather go with that
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Dubbs for folks that can do a permanent setup the Uneekor options do appear to be best value. I say that having paid little attention to their accuracy as I can’t do a permanent setup so will always need something portable even if it doesn’t come to the range.
I think I read somewhere Uneekor was working on something not ceiling mounted but I haven’t gone digging.
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I think we will still get the unit for $2,999 in the US and will have to pay $2,750 for FSX if you want it, but it sounds like you will be able to run third party software on the Bushnell US version based on the reps email.
I think the breakdown of the international unit is more like this (all in USD):
Unit price............................................. ..............................................$3,0 00
FSX software (forced to purchase it on the international version).....$2,750
One dot club data.............................................. ................................$1,500
Total $7,250 USD (which equals the estimated price of the international version converted from CAD)
If you are able to run third party software on the Bushnell unit this is a much better deal than a used GC2 seeing as those are going for around $4,500 on ebay right now without FSX.
Last edited by dinospumoni; 08-26-2021, 11:29 PM.
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I don't think it would make any sense for foresight to service old GC2's at this point patent or no patent.
It seems like the only patent they have related to the GC2 specifically is the one below which covers the fact that the GC2 is foldable (expires in 2027).
A novel golf ball launch monitor with a foldable design is disclosed. This launch monitor has a bottom housing that is connect to a top housing through a hinge. The top housing contains an image sensor for capturing an image of a golf ball. The top housing may also include a tilt gauge to measure the tilt of the top housing relative to the earth tangential or other reference plane. The monitor may also have a processor to process the images captured by the sensor, and may also include an illumination lamp to illuminate the golf ball and the surrounding environment. A display and/or a speaker may be added to the monitor as a means of outputting the results from the processor to a user of the monitor.
All of their other patents seem to be around more general aspects of the technology they use across their line up of launch monitors.
Even still, I don't really think the date their patent expires is all that relevant.
Companies like google file patents pretty regularly just to hold the intellectual property with no intention of ever actually developing the product.
If you buy a used unit on Ebay and it breaks they'll probably just say they are sorry to hear that and tell you about the Launch Pro.
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Hi dinospumoni
So if patents are not an issue, why don't Garmin or Rapsodo just take GC2 design, copy it and mass produce there own version of GC2 in china?
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HappyGilmore102 To quote Dubbs "what are you talking about?"
That is a completely separate issue and has absolutely nothing to do with whether they would be responsible for servicing older GC2 units that they are no longer producing.
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Would it be possible for someone to manually place a GCQuad in one dot mode with four dots on their club face, and then have another GCQuad right next to it in regular four dot mode with the hitting areas overlapping? Would make it a whole lot easier to justify spending an additional $2k to unlock the club data if the two units measure pretty much the same AoA, club path, and clubhead speed for the same swing.Last edited by dinospumoni; 08-26-2021, 11:25 PM.
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I think something is being lost in all of the incessant whining going on around new LM's such as this "GC3". Seems like some people expect every new unit to provide the ultimate in accuracy at a bargain basement price.
If you want best in class performance, then pay for it (i.e. TM or GCQuad).
If you can't afford $15-$20K, then assess what is most important to you and see what options you can afford based on that.
What we need to be encouraged about is that every year more LM options are being introduced. COVID-19 lockdowns turned on huge portions of the golfing population to the world of LMs. This helps create competition and therefore price competitiveness. The expanding market also helps spur innovation and will lead to cost reductions in the technology behind the most accurate launch monitors.
So, everyone calm down until we see some actual demos and testing on the new Bushnell/Foresight Launch Pro/GC3...quit bitching about it not costing $500 with all the capabilities of a GCQuad, and just enjoy the fact that our options are expanding.
**end rant**
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GungHoGolf I know, I own one and will still be replacing mine for the LP. When it comes down to it, the tech is just more accurate. HappyGilmore102 again...... FSX is a lot more than just simulation and they will be revamping the graphics early next year. If you are planning to use club data- it makes sense to use it with FSX. If not, then stick to ST or Mevo PlusLast edited by Dubbs; 08-27-2021, 10:20 PM.
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A couple points. I hardly think debating the value proposition is whining. I think we’re all wise enough to know that it’s Foresight’s right to charge what they want. What I see happening is debating the value for cost by people deciding if it’s worth it to them. The sellers job is to maximize profit and the buyers job is to assess if the price is “fair” noting fair price perception will vary by individual.
The part that intrigues me about the LM market is the supply/demand curve. In almost no other technology space could something like the GC2 be the same price after 10 years (a testament to its quality/success). Every other consumer technology I can think of prices for better products generally stay similar or reduce (think what you used to pay for a TV compared to now and what you got). The intriguing part is the LM space is small but growing so how the supply/demand curve reacts is interesting. I still believe in the next few years we’ll pay $5k for something darn close to the $20k price now in terms of accuracy. The question will be whether one of the traditional companies takes us there or someone else.
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Dubbs Not meaning to disappoint. But the story I am hearing is that it is NOT an upgrade to FSX2020 (like FSX2022)
It is a brand new software, with a brand new license cost. You get a taste of it with a GC3 purchase, so probably 1 course. Or a timegated window. But you will have to fork out additional $$ for it to get it. It is more of a simulation game built on the UNITY engine, assumingly by the Red Chain guys. It will be displayed at the PGA show in Jan 2022.
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