TGC Tour - The Masters 2016

[ProTee United]

The one we all have been waiting for !!

TOUR CHALLENGE
3 rounds at Magnolia National 2016 (ProTee 6356 yd)



RULES
Gimme : within 2 yards / 1.8 meters
Handicap : Not required
Wind: OFF
Green Grid : ON
Club Suggestion is ENABLED.
Boost: OFF (+/-5% max on club settings)

The TGC Masters 2016 runs from TODAY - April 10.

HOW TO PLAY
From the main menu select PLAY-> PLAY TOURNAMENT -> ALL TOURNAMENTS -> SET FILTER TO PUBLIC COMPETITIONS

You can play by yourself, offline with friends or ghost players or online.

GOOD LUCK !!

[Mike80]

Congrats ks-man and @Andy winning the TGC Masters 2016! Nice shooting!!!!!

[4 Degrees Flat]

I know we just play for "fun" but something doesn't seem right to me. Seems fishy to me that the top 3 finishers have handicaps of 14 or 15 which means they should shoot roughly mid to upper 80s. Yet all 3 had every round 78 or lower.... yeah whatever.

[Vincent_Vega]

Look at the scores, the majority of the field scored better than their handicap. It's a driver friendly course with no heavy rough. A higher handicap will always have a slight advantage because their ceiling is higher in terms of potential score improvement. Not sure what's so fishy about it. Look at the scores after this week's tournament, it's an extremely difficult course for sim play that will offset the lower scores from last week.

[st_golfer]

I know we just play for "fun" but something doesn't seem right to me. Seems fishy to me that the top 3 finishers have handicaps of 14 or 15 which means they should shoot roughly mid to upper 80s. Yet all 3 had every round 78 or lower.... yeah whatever.

The winner recorded all his rounds and posted them in this thread for all to see. You might consider watching that mouth accusing people of cheating son.

[ks-man]

He should watch my second round from the Heritage (will be posting tomorrow) and then will see the other side of my game. A couple of shanks showed their ugly head. Guess I found Augusta too easy . I agree with Vince that driver friendly courses make it a lot easier on the higher handicap players. Being in the trees with 250 yards to the green and no clear path to advance the ball further than 100 yards led to many double bogeys or more for me at this course.

[Daddio]

I am highly offended being called a cheater, I have played in about 15 of these tournaments and have only rewound about 4 or 5 shots,total, all because there was a ball in the FOV.
I did not rewind any in this tournament.
I finally figured out how to putt and I chipped really well plus I hit the ball really well after I looked at a video of myself Sat night, I figured out some posture and head movement issues and did my Jason Day relaxation move. I also played it smartly
For some reason, I seemed to play this course well.. I had good practice rounds also,all under 80.
I would post video's, but I don't have time for that.
I was happy as hell to finally have 3 good rounds, then someone accuses me of cheating, thanks dude!! Love you too
Every dog has his day.
Congrats to Ironstrokes and Vince, I feel sorry for them, they were awesome. Kudos to KS & Andy, glad to see them do well.

[ks-man]

He called me a cheater also but it doesn't both me in the slightest

[Vincent_Vega]

I am highly offended being called a cheater, I have played in about 15 of these tournaments and have only rewound about 4 or 5 shots,total, all because there was a ball in the FOV.
I did not rewind any in this tournament.
I finally figured out how to putt and I chipped really well plus I hit the ball really well after I looked at a video of myself Sat night, I figured out some posture and head movement issues and did my Jason Day relaxation move. I also played it smartly
For some reason, I seemed to play this course well.. I had good practice rounds also,all under 80.
I would post video's, but I don't have time for that.
I was happy as hell to finally have 3 good rounds, then someone accuses me of cheating, thanks dude!! Love you too
Every dog has his day.
Congrats to Ironstrokes and Vince, I feel sorry for them, they were awesome. Kudos to KS & Andy, glad to see them do well.

Don't even think twice about it. Congrats on playing well and a great finish. Ignore this guy.

[4 Degrees Flat]

If you're offended... then so be it. My intention is not to offend anyone. For a 15 handicap to shoot three straight rounds averaging 75-77 strokes is not believable. If you don't see that, then you don't understand golf. Either the handicap is way off... or something is not right. There may not be heavy rough on this course, but those greens are certainly not easy. Strange how most of the players in the 13-16 handicap range shot more realistic scores (avg. of 82-90). Check it out. Yet the top 3 all shoot mid 70s 3 straight rounds.

Trust me when I tell you this... I'm not the only one thinking this.. I'm just brave or dumb enough to post it. Oh... and I've been playing longer on this tour than 95% of you and I know what it takes to shoot scores like that. If you post three scores in a row like that.... then you are not a 15 handicap. You are a 6 or7 at worst.

[st_golfer]

It all depends on what the strength of their game is, just as in real life. I've watched enough of ks-man's videos to know that he's got a good wedge game that gets him out of trouble quickly. If he is accurate off the tee then he's liable for a good score. That is exactly the same issue with me, both in simulation and in real life. I am terrible odd the tee, but I'll put my game inside 125 up against anybody. It's what keeps me in the 80's most rounds.

Also, I may be wrong but it looks like the TGC handicap does not seem to be affected by the tournament rounds. When I first started TGC and went through Q school, I had some ungodly bad scores and ended up a 22. But as I got accustomed to simulator play, it got better but I have only been playing TGC tournament rounds, not regular rounds on handicapped courses that I suspect would adjust my index. I am routinely in the mid 80's yet my cap has not budged an inch. I think that is a major flaw in the scoring system here.

[Daddio]

To be perfectly honest, I don't even know what to do to cheat aside from rewinding. What do you think I am doing to cheat?

[keither5150]

I am not a great golfer but I do play a lot. After 185 rounds, 440 birdies and 43 eagles. I can say that I am capable of shooting 2 under par and also capable of shooting a 90. I can and have certainly put together a few great rounds in a row on occasion. Look up Keither5150 on YouTube and look at Kapulua Bay Hole in one. I recorded my complete round with 2 of my ghosts. There I had 3 rounds in the low 70's. In that tournament I shot 79,81. Not so good under pressure sometimes. I used screen capture to record, so my two rewinds are visible and clearly a misread by the system. I realize that I am not mentioned in the post. I have shot -16 under my handicap once.

There is something that is coming down the pipes that has to do with watching other peoples rounds. The easiest way to do this is through stats. When you click in the head with a ball cap on the leaderboard, you can view the players stats. All they need to do is slightly modify the replay section to allow others to view complete rounds. When you save a replay. It allows you to watch the complete round. All they would have to do is allow the round to be watched with rewinds and autorewinds by the public. This will take up storage but they could auto delete them after a week. I personally would love this as I use autorewind during practice rounds ... mostly on par 3's and sometimes on drives where I know I can cut the corner. I would like to watch every shot I take during practice rounds. I also would like to watch a round where somebody shoots in the 60's. Check out how they played the course and such. To make this work, they would have to record every complete round of the tournament. Keep it on file for a couple of days and then delete it.

I am not sure what ProTee and HB studios are planning but there is something in the works regarding this.

I took some lessons that hurt my short game a bit during this tournament, but after reading this post, I will be recording all future rounds. Daddio, if you have a GTX video card, you can use shadowplay to record your round.

[Daddio]

I would record them, but after I get done, I'm ready to go home, besides, most of the time there is nothing worth recording lol
If you can see all the ghosts, can't the people who run this go back and check to see if anyone is cheating?

[goatbarn]

What they really need to do first and foremost is limit mulligans to systems that actually need them. Not GC2 thats for sure.

When mulligans are allowed someone will always take advantage of them, we're human. I have no idea who is cheating or if anyone won by cheating, but I do know that there is definitely someone that has taken a mulligan on a bad shot in this tour. It's silly to think otherwise.

So since we're playing with lots of different hardware, some that require mulligans because of misreads, the mulligan thing will always be something that's not great.

*** (which is a tour run by playres of Perfect Golf) does not allow mulligans. Protee hardware or GSA hardware is not integrated, but Skytrak is. I don't own a Skytrak, but why would Skytrak players not need mulligans in PG, but need them in TGC? I'm guessing something is either not 100% great with the ST/TGC integration, or it's really not required.

I'd be a strong supporter of allowing mulligans only when using certain hardware.

Until there are no mulligans allowed, someone will always feel cheated, and someone will always cheat. I've yet to actually meet someone on GSF that seems like they would cheat, but like I said we're all human, with tons of flaws.

In the end I really don't care because it's just fun for me, not real golf. My real competitive nature comes out when I'm playing real life golf competitive local/state events.

[Vincent_Vega]

I do agree with Skytrak and GC2 users not needing mulligans. I can only name one or two shots in the many rounds I've played now that a putt read as like 3 or 4 degrees right when I actually hit it straight. You may have the occasional shot not register but obviously that doesn't show up in the software. Maybe others have had different results than me but I've found Skytrak to be very reliable in terms of accuracy.

I'm sure there might be a few that are abusing mulligans but I don't take issue with the scores last week like Old Tom Morris did earlier. It was an overall easy setup and I can easily see how people shot much better than their handicaps.

[Mickey]

I don't think skytrak requires rewind on TGC tournaments. I've never had a misread - plenty of no reads, but no misreads.

[Mickey]

I don't really care if people rewind, and I'm not accusing anyone of rewinding. See this excerpt from Golf Digest August 2003 publication

Q:How often should I play to -- or beat -- my handicap?
Knuth: If it's accurate, you should average about three shots above your handicap. For example, a player with a course handicap of 16 on a course with a rating of 71.1 should score on average about 90. The USGA handicap system is based on 96 percent of the best 10 of a golfer's last 20 rounds, not simply average score.

Scores normally fit into the classic bell-shaped curve. More than half of your scores should be within three strokes of three over your handicap. In other words, taking our 16-handicapper, more than half of the rounds should be between 87 and 93. The player will better the handicap -- shooting 87 or lower -- only about 20 percent of the time, or once every five rounds. Golfers should only beat their handicap by three strokes one out of every 20 rounds.

Q: What are the odds of that 16-handicapper breaking 80?
Knuth: The odds of someone beating their handicap -- if it's an honest handicap -- by eight strokes are 1,138 to 1. For most players that represents about 54 years of golf -- a lifetime for many. The odds of beating your number by eight strokes twice are 14,912 to 1, or 710 years of golf.

[goatbarn]

This only applies is TGC handicaps are calculated in similar fashion, meaning you have an index, and the index is applied to how difficult the course is, and that sets your course handicap. USGA handicap index's are really supposed to represent your potential ability to score, has nothing to do with average score either.

Since TGC courses don't have ratings/slopes, at least not all of them, it makes using a system like this harder.

[ks-man]

I find the higher handicap golfer who is constantly adjusting their swing will have far greater variance than the standard handicap system implies. I go out on a course and will have rounds of 83 and 102 and everything in between. The difference of being off on your driver and losing 7 balls in a round and playing everything from the trees vs. hitting 8 fairways and just missing another 3 will lead to extreme volatility of scores. The better the golfer the tighter the curve.

I also find it interesting that some golfers (like me) shoot way better in simulators than in real life. Other golfers claim they are much worse on the simulator. I would have originally assumed that was just due to lost balls, the worse the golfer the better they will be on simulators but a different thread showed that not to be the case. In the end, we are all just out here having fun. I "won" the Masters, obviously due to my high handicap coupled with a fw great rounds. I don't think that Augusta National will allow me to tee it up with the real players starting next year until I can't swing a club anymore. My wife still rolls her eyes when I say I'm a Masters Champion. None of this really matters at all. If we were playing for something tangible or betting on it I could understand all the controversy.

[aja]

I like Mario's post. It really is to the point.

The 'volatility' that is being discussed is perhaps also true. But then why is there no 'volatility' in 3 consecutive rounds?

I've never been on a golf junket, playing day after day where there hasn't been a great variance in my scores. Why would that be different on the sim?

Starting to look like we should be sticking to courses that are TGC handicap rated. If that were possible we would certainly get appropriate handicaps for everyone by the end of a tour season.

[ProTee United]

Every shot you hit in TGC is recorded. Your personal page on the tour site (finished in a couple of months) will display every single shot you hit with all details (club used, ball speed, spin, etc).
Shots you hit on tournaments will be visible for everyone. When you have any doubts about certain scores you will be able to look up the player and see how he played his round.

[jrz]

Guys, even though our controllers and screens are expensive and fancy it's really just a video game...

[bk1106]

I did not feel fellow players were being accused of cheating. No, not at all! To me, the accuracy of the tour HCP was being questioned. Sim golf or real golf, net scores of around -10 do happen, but Average net scores of around -10 must have a lot of things going right in addition to a HCP that is too slow to catch up to the player's ability. This could happen to:
(1) players who started sim golf recently; their sim HCP is still settling
(2) players who joined the tour more recently; there has not been enough tour HCP resets to catch things up
(3) players who have a tour HCP higher than their RL HCP; the true playing ability has to shine through some of the times; and
(4) A HCP system that departs too far from the best 10 of past 20 rule used by USGA with which a good round affects the HCP much more quickly than a bad round (sim golf or not); this not only leaves potential room for HCP manipulation but also corrects overly favorable HCP too slowly even when good rounds have been recorded.

Now, I believe people rewind with good judgment, and not one player do massive rewinds. But if the HCP system was not efficient the bias gets multiplied quickly. It then becomes potentially easy for some to compete and just too difficult for some others. With this, I sincerely hope ProTee would consider adopting the principle of the best 10 of past 20 rule into the mix of rules you have. I believe this is a major rule that will promote a fair HCP and speed up pertinent HCP adjustments. I wonder if there is enough support of this in the forum. Let's hear it.

[aja]

Was waiting for these issues to rear their heads... but I have to agree, I didn't read the post as accusing someone of cheating. That word never appeared once.

In reality it really is unlikely that you would score that well in relation to your handicap. I noticed that as well when looking at the results. The problem is likely with the handicap, not someone rewinding shots.

Look at Vincent's score, tied for 17th (net) gross score is -6, second best in the tournament, but the handicap which is very low and likely very accurate for him resulted in a net score placed that him in middle of the pack, which also doesn't seem right.

The TGC calculated handicap (for TGC handicap rated courses) seems to work quite well. I discovered that when I was playing a few rounds and rewinding bad shots to practice certain holes. When I finished the rounds my handicap went down pretty quickly since the scores were artificially lower. My TGC calculated handicap is much lower than it should be as a result.

[MainStGolf]

I'm with JRZ . . . There's nothing gained or lost other than maybe pride when we don't play well or we do play well. I for one am a person that can play much better in the sim than in real life. I don't know how many rounds under 80 I've had on the sim, but its several and the closest I've come to under 70 IRL is an 81. I've shot a couple of 83s, but as was stated already with a perfect lie every time and 6ft jimmies that REALLY helps! I went from nearly a 110 this week to an 88 on the same course. That 88 should have been an 84-85 at the highest, but I had 2 or 3 water balls. I think my TGC handicap is pretty spot on to what my IRL handicap would be if I had one. When handicaps are used there's always going to be that chance that someone goes low, but there would simply be no way for some of us to compete on a week-in-week-out basis with some of these really low shooters :-). In the end it's fun! Let's play on!

[Boo Radley]

Yup, I only won because my handicap was artificially high do to learning curve of sim golf and number of rounds ,I caught on more quickly than what my hdcp reflected. I think that a gross flighted system would work much better.....just saying..............Like the year the guy won ATT Pro AM Pebble Beach with an inflated hdcp........was he cheating....................probably.....he fudged his hdcp.........Hey ProTEE, can you imagine if there was actual Prizes???? HAHAHA
Time to head outside, even in Michigan

[wbond]

Boo whereabouts in mi are you? Maybe we can play sometime if you're near the Detroit area