Sky Trak renewal fee....

[doublebogey]

Agree w aeroburner, moadhia and jerry3. SkyGolf should make an equitable proposal for all or else they're potentially alienating potential new customers (which will hurt them in the long run).

SkyGolf's problem is no one cares to pay $100/year on top of GIP for WGT. But they figured people will prob pay $200/year to play other sims (and they might be right). So they just made people pay for WGT to play other sims (even though what they really wanted to do was to charge people $200/year to play other sims).

Given WGT is not worth extra $100/year on top of GIP, and in fact some may argue that GIP itself (w/o access to other sims) is worth $100/year (though they're making good improvements on the range app), what they should really do is revisit their entire subscription options and maybe change to something along the following:

Option 1: Game Improvement Package for $100/year that includes full range app + WGT (let's face it WGT is not a real sim so should be just part of GIP) but no 3rd party sim access

Option 2: Sim Play Access for $100/year that allows one to access all 3rd party sims but no access to GIP including full range app

The 2 options can be bought individually or together. Then people who play 3rd party sims but also want to practice on SkyTrak's ever-improving range app and utilize their Skills Challenges will be paying $200/year (which is what SkyGolf wants). But also gives people option to just stick w 3rd party sim access but nothing else. This gives customers choice to choose what they want as opposed to feeling like they're having things they don't want (like WGT) forced upon them.

[Lgnir]

Well, I really hate to take SkyTrak's side on this, but look at it from their point of view. They had numerous customers that purchased sim software to use with the SkyTrak. When their purchase was made, the requirements were that the GIP package was required. Then they change their packaging to require the PIP. If you never purchased the sim software, then you were not affected by this change. You still had your GIP and everything that went with it.

SkyTrak did right by their customers that made that investment into the sim software. However, if you did not purchase the sim software, there was nothing SkyTrak "had to make right" with you.

Yes, it absolutely sucks that if you want to purchase the sim software now, you have to purchase the $199/year package, and frankly, I wouldn't if it was me. I stated before that I purchased the GIP as I wanted the driving range and skills assessment, I only purchased the sim software because it worked with what I already had. I could not see paying an extra $100/year to access software I could already access in the package I had.

What you are asking for is basically to purchase something at a previous price point, because the price went up. I can't see SkyTrak offering that deal to people who didn't make the sim purchase prior, but now wanting that deal because the package structure changed.

[bennyg211]

Now, if the cost for TGC, JNPG or E6 goes up, then that's a different thing. But the yearly service cost is the issue.

[TorchRedRob]

bennyg211 As a counter argument, let's say I bought a car back in 2015 when a yearly all-in maintenance plan cost $100/yr for as long as I own the car. But, I didn't take advantage of that plan at the time, and now I'm ready to sign up. Between 2015 and now, the dealership has raised the cost of the yearly maintenance plan to $200/yr for as long as I own the car. If I purchased the plan in 2015, I will pay $100/yr for as long as I have the car and keep the plan, which was my expectation when I signed up- I certainly can't expect them to raise the price on me. On the other hand, if I didn't purchase the maintenance plan until now, I can't expect them to honor an older price just because that's what it used to be. Also, I can't be mad at other people who signed up for the deal at the lower price. Overall I think it's ridiculous to charge a yearly fee for the privilege to use your $1000 software, but that's beside the point.

[bennyg211]

Sorry TorchRedRob I still disagree, your only argument holds true if there was a plan offered at the start and there was not. Also, I'm not mad at other people, just at SkyTrak. In your analogy, to me it's more like I'm being charged extra for petrol when I bought the car at the same time as the other people who are getting cheaper petrol (gas).

[Scyukon]

So I received the email from Skytrak about the annual free upgrade. I just renewed again in January, so not sure what I will need to do from here. Are they automatically upgrading my membership? Or do I need to go into their website and try and cash in my free automatic upgrade? The last time I logged on last Sunday I got the message about my license expiring in two weeks.


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[Scyukon]

I agree with you on this too, which is why I rejected the proposed resolution through the BBB.

Is not everyone who had signed up for 99 to be able to access TGC having that honoured? I think to be fair anyone who purchased a Skytrak prior to the price hike should have the 99 fee honoured as they may have chosen differently if they knew about the fee increase.


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[Zevon]

Yeah, this isn't exactly clear as of now. I have the JNPG sim, but was going to change over to TGC once the subscription ran up in May. So since I had any sim option, does that mean I still get the voucher? I agree that anyone that has a purchase date of the ST unit before the price hike was announced should be considered grandfathered.

[Jtangm04]

Details from Skytrak are still very fuzzy. Glad they accommodated to our concerns, but I am still skeptical what they will do in the future.

Would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the Skytrak room. Was it shortsighted management unaware increasing fees without warning would lead to such a blow back or did they expect some blowback but underestimated skytrak/tcg/jnpg social networking phenomenon and how viral word of mouth could be for them. Also how much pressure did they get from 3rd party software companies to amend their policy.

As for aeroburner's concerns of us letting skytrak off the hook for new customers, there is an element of truth to it. However, as consumers we make decisions like this all the time on whether costs of goods/services is worth spending our money on. What we would like is transparency on what a good would really cost us. Having those expected costs suddenly increase unexpectedly by skytrak is what led to my outrage. Skytrak damaged a lot of trust from their current consumers and their future consumers by this mishap. If I'm a new customer, I would feel like I missed a sale... from a very shady used car salesman.

[jrhouston]

They have put right existing sim customers but not those of us who have recently brought skytrak and were planning to upgrade. I got my skytrak for Christmas and have spent the last month building my sim. I am nearly done and ready to purchase the software. I feel cheated by skytrak that they offered me at a specific price and then hike by 100% within a month of purchase.

IMO, the sensible decision skytrak should have made is to offer the deal they are giving to existing sim option holders to other existing skytrak customers for the next month... acknowledging their false advertising. Allow those of us who have been scrimping and saving to join the club.

i would buy my sim option now to lock it in at the existing price, they would have more guaranteed annual revenue and everyone would have a nice warm feeling that the are getting what they were advertised!

[ironFrank]

I was quite silent during the discussion but now I have to say something.

As a former developer myself I cannot agree with that pricing/ licensing model at all.

How does it usually work?

You as a development company of a golfsim or something else are interested to use Launch Monitors/ Equipment and integrate an interface in your software. This is part of the software development costs. You calculate and realize a prize on the market which covers your costs and some profit of course. The customer doesnt care and doesnt know how much they payed for those integration license. And the price of 995$ for TGC says it all (It is 50$ on the xbox for exactly the same game. For what in the world did they spent 945$ when the game without the interface is only50. The calculation in the game is the same)


But what happens here?

The software development companies dont pay the license for integration cause skytrak is not big enough. So they turn the tables. They say: "If you, skytrak, want to use our well known simulation software , you pay us license costs! Cause you arent any important on the market and the high rollers are already working with us and to be honest, they are not happy that you want to break into their market where they had so much fat income years with this rich golf idiots which dont understand that it could be much cheaper or simply dont care."

What does skytrak do?

They say:"Ok, we need a foot in the door and so we need to say yes, otherwise we will not have any chance to break into the market". So they call it "Simulation integration license" and let the customer pay for it...

And we are now all happy to pay only 99$ or even more in Europe.

Let me state that clear: I know how much work is in software development and I know, ones the basic flight model is working, an interface to grab the launch data and forward it to the calculation model, is a piece of cake.

But like I say. Golf players are a bit strange. We pay 600$ for a new driver but we play with lakeballs which will destroy all benefits from the new driver. We pay 5000$ for a Golfsimulation system but use 10 year old clubs on it. We pay greenfee of 400$ on great couses but dont pay 50$ for a trainer who would let us enjoy those courses. We say "Golf is getting down cause we are lacking new young players, but keep the costs so high that a normal working human beeing is not able to pay for it.

Shall I go on? And we are complaining about 1200$ a year that someone is squeezing our balls he allready owns cause we are addicted to that sport?

Knock Knock, Wake up Neo...

[aja]

Very true and to the point comments. (Wonder if they are too close to home?)

Never been a fan of the Skytrak, especially given the history of the corporate player involved. Why is anyone surprised when subscription fees are raised? You bought a product with subscription fees, which went from "one time" charges to annual fees.

People have short memories.

I'll stick to my ProTee, for obvious reasons.

[Lgnir]

What SkyTrak had to honor was the "agreement" that was made to those that purchased the lifetime subscription of TGC. When those users made their purchase of the lifetime subscription of TGC, it was under the "agreement" that the sim would run under the GIP. This was a "lifetime" purchase, and not "renting" the software. If you did not purchase the software before the change, (and I know this sucks), you didn't have a "dog in the fight". If you were "renting" the sim software, then unfortunately, this also does not apply to you, as we all know "rental agreements" can legally change from one year to the next, much like apartments and other things.

Now, SkyTrak could have been cool and said "If you purchased a SkyTrak before this change, and wish to get in under the voucher deal, you have 30 days to make your purchase of TGC, however this does not apply to SkyTraks purchased after the date of the change". That would have been a class move and would have done TONS to repair their reputation. However legally, there was no "agreement" in place unless you had already purchased the lifetime TGC.

For those that didn't make the purchase, it sucks, I know, and if I were in your shoes, I personally would not purchase a "lifetime" subscription knowing I had to pay and extra $100/year just to access it. (I do not count the $99/year for the GIP in this, as I understood the GIP gave me access to the driving range/skills challenge...the sim access was a just a bonus at the time.) If SkyTrak sees their sales/rental of sim software decline in the future, maybe they will rethink their package structure.

[Lgnir]

Well, lets be realistic about it. Every subscription I have ever dealt with, if the price of the subscription dropped, I got it at the lower price. If the price of the subscription increased, I still maintained my old (lower) price until my subscription ended, then I was moved to the higher price. I've never seen it the way you described, with someone lowering the price and making someone pay the higher rate.

[bennyg211]

Kinda my point really, that it would be and is ridiculous. Let's end this now, both points are put across. We pretty much agree that the whole thing has been badly handled and think that we probably both agree (???) that the most ethical move forward would be for SkyTrak to extend this to all existing owners prior to their announcement date.

[Lgnir]

Trust me Benny, I AM on your side here, and have been exploring the legality of the situation. You being in the UK, may have different consumer laws than what we have here in the states. I TRULY hope that SkyTrak grandfathers in ALL people who purchased a SkyTrak before this change, as in my opinion, that would be the classiest move they could make. I'm hoping they do and maybe I'll see you in TGC sometime!

[simmb]

Now, SkyTrak could have been cool and said "If you purchased a SkyTrak before this change, and wish to get in under the voucher deal, you have 30 days to make your purchase of TGC, however this does not apply to SkyTraks purchased after the date of the change". That would have been a class move and would have done TONS to repair their reputation. However legally, there was no "agreement" in place unless you had already purchased the lifetime TGC.
.

This would have been a nice way to handle it. I know there are a few people in the same boat as me, just recently bought a Skytrak for sim play but for various reasons not purchased a simulation option yet. I could not afford Skytrak and TGC in the same hit so was leaving a month between purchases. I think in the UK it will now work out about $225 a year to play a piece of software that I would own, that just seems a bit too much for my liking. They would generate more cash offering current GIP subscribers the voucher offer, I would buy TGC within the next 30 days and then pay the $99 a year for the forseable future. As it stands now I probably won't even keep my Skytrak. Guess I missed the boat on this one.

[wildbill]

The peoples voice's were heard. You have to give a little respect for them at least listing to our concerns and making changes because of them. Although not affected I believe that they should grandfather anybody that bought one prior to the price hike weather they had the sim at the time or not. New customers can make their decision based on correct pricing guidelines for there needs. Happy once again with my purchase and cant wait to smoke you guys at this weekends tournament, well by smoke I mean top 50.

[BradyPett23]

Has anyone received their voucher yet? I purchased SkyTrak and TGC (paid in full, not a rental) on February 23 2016 and I have not yet received a voucher.


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[Jason Barto]

I haven't read the thread in its entirety, so i apologize if this has already been asked and answered. I purchased my ST in January and currently have the Game Improvement package, which i paid $99 for. Are you guys saying that if i wanted to purchase the Play and Improve package, it would have cost me $200 to add it, instead of just another $100?

The reason i ask is i have been weighing my options on whether or not to purchase it, but was waiting on the Armor i purchased to arrive before i went that route. I checked the skygolf website yesterday and it still only is requiring me to pay $99 to add the Play and Improve package. Is that pricing the same as before or is that not the price increase you guys were discussing?

[frackh]

The price for those subscriptions are the same, the big change is that they moved the sim prerequisite from the Game Improvement sub ($99) to the Play & Improve sub ($199). If you already have the GI sup, then you get the sim play grandfathered in. Otherwise it's $199/yr.

[ROY]

I have been chatting with a SkyGolf support agent for about 20 mins regarding the changes. I have the Play and Improve Package which expires in June 2017. I, like others, had not pulled the trigger on sim software but was planning on doing so in the near term. However, based upon my communication just now, I do not fall into the voucher program and must pay full price to access this. They did say that I could purchase the simulation package and use it until June 2017 with out paying for the Play and Improve plan but when I am renewing, I need to renew with Play and Improve plan. They said they would forward my feedback to the concerned department and they apologized for any unintended inconvenience. I asked when I could expect to hear something back and they said I should call next level support and they may help me in this. 1-866-940-4279. My beef is that I feel those that fall under the existing plan but did not purchase sim software yet, we should still be able to be grandfathered in at the same price going forward. Just my two cents.

[Schlueter]

Lgnir..my Skytrak GIP is up February 16... I hope they make this right for me and others who have purchased lifetime Sim before the increase.. We all have spent lots of money on our sims maybe even more than our wives know about. If they don't make it right I will consider going elsewhere for my launch monitor.. I understand they want to make money that's their job but doing it this way will only lose customers

[Genghis]

I would be proactive and call ST Customer Service since your date is so close. You will at least have proof that you attempted to renew with the voucher as they described if anything goes awry during the process. Let us know how this plays out.

[Lgnir]

Schlueter, I'm sure they will stand by their word, it might just take a few days to get the voucher program up and running. Genghis made a good point by contacting customer support, as they may have some updated information for those whose subscriptions are ending soon.