Upgrade offer

[Lgnir]

ProTee United it would be really nice if the definition of "loyalty" were extended to folks who paid the same amount for a lifetime license, just a few weeks earlier than others. October '17 money is just as loyal as Jan '18 money.

Protee defined what "loyalty" meant to them: Regular tour players and frequent contributors to the forum. The reason then didn't come out and say "You needed to play XX number of tour events or and posted XX amount of times in the forum", was to avoid having people that didn't participate in their tour and forum do it for a short period of time just to qualify for the free upgrade.

Protee didn't have to offer anyone a free upgrade. The decided to offer it to those that support the ProTee line, especially their tour.

[janda21]

With all due respect Lgnir you even requested clarity on the terms back in April 2018. I would love to agree that they adequately defined the terms, but that simply is not the case.
See your comment from Lgnir back on 04/25/2018 https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...022#post147022
There was never a response to the inquiry your comment. I have closely monitored this situation and can confidently say there were no other threads where this was clearly and concisely defined.

[Lgnir]

Yes, there was never a response, so I emailed ProTee directly and received the explanation about the "upgrade".

[janda21]

Lgnir I am happy to hear the private messaging option works as it is intended. Now I know for a fact that my inquiries to @ProTee have intentionally been ignored. They chose to post the free upgrade request option (and vague criteria) on a public forum and any clarifications on that criteria should be provide to all on said public forum. NOT through a private message on an individual basis. The responsibility lies with the company to communicate this information not on the customer. Just my opinion.

[FACE]

I feel loyalty in most business sense is a time factor of length not shortness. If they were going to offer the free upgrade I would have thought it to be more defined with written criteria of dates or deadlines. I got excited thinking I was going to get it for free. If it were an upgrade we would all pay then so be it. Those that just joined lately should be the last to garner a loyalty program gift.

[calebm1001]

I don't understand the struggle to grasp the comments about loyalty.... Loyalty had nothing to do with people purchasing from January 1st 2018 - Yesterday. Anyone who purchased in that time was told they would get TGC 2019 for free, becuase the cat was out of the bag. ProTee understood they would go potentially a year without significantly needed revenue due to people waiting out the release of the new version.

The Loyalty Program, you can call it, was based on a set of criteria for people who purchased BEFORE 1/1/18. If you didn't fall into that category, then you at least get for it 50% off, from the sounds of it and if you filled out the form request for the free upgrade.

If you purchased in December of 2017, and didn't get a free upgrade, that sucks. I feel for you. It's a tough one to stomach. One that might make me choose a different product next time. But a line must be drawn. There will always be people upset about it and they had to make a business decision. We will see how that decision pans out over the next few months/years.

[FACE]

CalebM1001, so there is a form to request the upgrade if you joined prior to 2018?

[calebm1001]

FACE - There was a form for many months when the news broke and the "criteria" came out. It is no longer active.

If you don't have the the 50% discount, I would highly recommend reaching out to ProTee directly letting them know when you purchased TGC1 and that you don't have a discount code for the new software purchase. The deal expires in July (90 days from 4/8).

[Scyukon]

The loyalty criteria seems to only have been defined in the last few weeks. Many of us have been staying silent for a long while hoping we would fit the bill.

I wonder as well about the longer term implications of this on Protees revenue stream. I think they will make more revenue long term by charging, say 100 annually, on top of the lifetime purchase price, than hoping existing customers bite at the 400 upgrade fee every number of years. The revenue stream is far less lumpy, you don’t have to maintain multiple versions of the software, and you have a larger single tour.

[Robby Dyer]

I can't find reference to it, and I could be imagining it, but I recall reading over a year ago from ProTee United in this forum that they would, to paraphrase, "take care of" current lifetime licensees. My only point is, discriminating between 2017 purchasers and 2018+ purchasers, at the rate of $400, is totally ridiculous. It should have been an upgrade for all, or for none.

When the time comes that I'm ready to spend money on simulator software upgrade, I'll be taking my business elsewhere.

EDIT: Found it https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...022#post147022

So what's the plan?

Loyal TGC customers and active TGC tour players can expect a free upgrade to TGC2019. Anyone who buys the current release of TGC this year will also receive a free upgrade to TGC2019 when we officially release it.

[Robbyboy]

You aren’t imagining anything. They definitely said they would take care of everyone and I also saw the word “nominal” fee to upgrade. Now we are hit with a $400 "nominal fee".

[aja]

How much are greens fees where you play... A foursome probably leaves at least as much each round....

The money being asked for is "nominal" given the amount of effort that has been expended to port the newest version. There is always the option of not making the jump to TGC2019. The original works just fine.

[FACE]

aja I think the biggest issue is how it was communicated to the loyal patron of the software. I know I have sold SKYTRAK and TGC to many of my friends and even offered to help build their cage. I don't read all of the blogs but really shouldn't have to for the skinny plan and simple of who gets the free upgrade and who doesn't.

[wbond]

Based on the comment below that has been posted previously, Protee didn't appear to stray from this. As i see it, they defined "Loyal TGC customers" to be those that contributed to their forum and "active TGC tour players" to be those that frequently participated in the weekly tour events.

The most complaints seem to be coming from those with very few posts on the forum, so then it would go to how many actual tour events did you play? If you played them frequently and just don't post much, then maybe reach out privately to Protee to state your case.

It seems that the idea is that because you purchased TGC, it made you a Loyal TGC customer.




So what's the plan?

Loyal TGC customers and active TGC tour players can expect a free upgrade to TGC2019. Anyone who buys the current release of TGC this year will also receive a free upgrade to TGC2019 when we officially release it.

[triplebogeysrbetter]

I wish it was possible to like this post 100 times.

Seems all the complaining is coming from OmG I brought this product in December 2017. I have 4 post. Three of which are complains and I played about zero events. Where is mine upgrade (not update) that you never promised?

[mikestuewe]

Based on the comment below that has been posted previously, Protee didn't appear to stray from this. As i see it, they defined "Loyal TGC customers" to be those that contributed to their forum and "active TGC tour players" to be those that frequently participated in the weekly tour events.

The most complaints seem to be coming from those with very few posts on the forum, so then it would go to how many actual tour events did you play? If you played them frequently and just don't post much, then maybe reach out privately to Protee to state your case.

It seems that the idea is that because you purchased TGC, it made you a Loyal TGC customer.




So what's the plan?

Loyal TGC customers and active TGC tour players can expect a free upgrade to TGC2019. Anyone who buys the current release of TGC this year will also receive a free upgrade to TGC2019 when we officially release it.

how else would you define a loyal tgc customer? Since 2017, I have purchased 100% of the tgc related products for my skytrak. can't get any more loyal than 100%

I totally get that 2019 is a different product from the original TGC. I really don't mind paying for the new software and am happy that I dont have to pay the full price. but, this was just confusing from the beginning. had they just said anyone who purchased since 1/1/2018 would get the upgrade, and then surprised their other loyal customers with free upgrade, customers would be happier

[mikestuewe]

ProTee Max ProTee United I asked in another thread but haven't received any traction. does anyone know if we purchase the tgc 2019 upgrade through skytrak, are we able to still transfer the license for both tgc and tgc 2019 to a GC2 in the future?

[ProTee United]

It appears there is a lot of confusion around the wording loyal, active, tour player, forum contributor, etc so we updated the terms and conditions to make it more clear:

https://csc.protee-united.com/hc/en-...and-Conditions

[Jard]

ProTee United

There was a lot of confusion about those terms because they were not defined clearly, which set expectations, including my own.

I’m not sure that just removing that language from the terms and conditions makes it more clear.

It started as loyal or active, then switched to VERY active, and now nothing...

I would argue that this actually makes the situation worse since there seems to be arbitrary criteria for those that did get a free upgrade. You always said you have sole discretion, etc, but it certainly feels like a bit of a walk back or dangle and switch at this point.

Since the industry is growing I expect this won’t hurt new sales and the bottom line since 2019 looks like a great product (haven’t played it yet).

Personally, I’ll be evaluating all options before spending any more money on the TGC franchise.

[JackedUpSwing]

LOL.. So go to E6 then? Did E6 1.6 users get E6 connect for free? Protee is being gracious enough to allow some people to get free upgrades, and people like you aren't happy unless either they give away the product for free entirely, or NOBODY gets a free upgrade.

[janda21]

Agreed. There was (and still is) a lot of confusion because the terms were, how do I say this, confusing.

See the comment from Lgnir back on 04/25/2018 https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...022#post147022
There was never an attempt to clarify the terms.

Was it confusing, undeniably YES. It is impossible to deny the fact at this point in the game when so many people are feeling duped. If it was clear there would be no confusion. I also agree that those who received the free upgrade have no right to cast judgement on anyone who is complaining that they didn't receive the "free upgrade".

I personally own a business and I agree that a business must make money, no arguments there. However, at this point, I have to believe that all of this negative publicity will be far more damaging than any amount of revenue that would have been lost by providing the upgrade to all. A businesses main goal is for customers to have a warm and fuzzy feeling when they think about your business. This is how you gain support and referrals from your users. It was a calculated risk and time will tell how it all plays out. For me, I would always err on the conservative side when it comes to my customer base and would hesitate to define what qualifies as a "loyal" or "valuable" customer.

All of this has been hashed out in other threads in great detail. Here is the link to my response to a post from last week: https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...850#post197850

For me personally, the frustration has reached this escalated level for a couple of reasons. First, I believe the criteria was intentionally vague to allow ProTee United to use their discretion when handing out "free upgrades" to those who purchased the product prior to 1/1/2018. Although I believe this is poor business practice, I can move past this issue. Second, the communication from ProTee United to those who feel harmed has been severely lacking and when explanations are provided they tend to cause more harm than good. The feeling seems to be "sweep it under the rug and hope everything settles down over the coming weeks". The communication issues includes changing criteria definitions and emphasizing that you needed to be VERY active on the forum or tour. Again, I believe this is poor business practice, but I can move past this as well. What I cannot move past is the fact that I have sent private messages to ProTee United and received no response. Additionally, in January I proactively inquired of ProTee United when there was a 25% promotion being offered. At that time, the price would have been $297 (25% off the $395 upgrade) and I was told by Customer Support to wait and see if I received the "free upgrade"offer rather than take advantage of this deal. Not long afterwards this promotion was removed from the website. Like many, I have sat quietly and waited for my "free upgrade" email. That email never came, so yes I do feel like I was misguided by ProTee United. As many have indicated, if I would have known upfront that I wasn't eligible I would have made different decisions and my feelings about this situation would also be different.

No doubt ProTee United believed they were making the best decision for their business and their customer base and I am sure this situation is weighing heavily on them. However, rather than make any attempt to fix it they have chosen to double down on their stance. Again, time will tell if this was the correct choice.

[aja]

My view is that ProTee works very hard at customer service and has a loyal following. Their software is very reasonably priced. Shop around. Not sure there is a better deal for sim software comparable to TGc2019.

Seems like a lot of people are "nickel and dimeing" this to death.

All of a sudden the sim software world has gotten prohibitively expensive for some sim golfers.

How much do you spend on golf in the outdoor season?

I'm sure that there will be other promotions.

[Scyukon]

Well said janda21. I agree with you that this is long past being a money issue for all involved. My guess is that pretty much everyone who purchased the Skytrak and TGC lifetime licence in the first place has the means to pay for the upgrade. But that does not mean we will. I also don’t see as much positive feedback coming from us dinosaurs (er early adopters) about the virtues of a lifetime licence with Protee when providing advice to others going forward.

Also i think that Protee needs to drop the word “lifetime” from its marketing. You don’t see any “lifetime” versions of Madden football or whatever video game you wish to name so why not do away with what has now, unfortunately, become deceptive marketing, to avoid this hassle going forward.

[aja]

Does Matt Kuchar work for ProTee? ))

[Wizard of Coz]

Protee and matt the dbag Kuchar don't belong in the same sentence cmon man really!