SkyTrak Launch Monitor

[sb81]

I'm an amateur of amateurs (ie: not good) when it comes to golf, but isn't ~10-15 yards the expected difference between irons?

Average PW is 97 Average 9 is 114 Delta is 17
Average 9 is 114 Average 7 is 151 Delta is 37 / 2 is 18.5 to account for the missing 8 Iron.

Seems maybe a little on the high side, but between human inconsistency and the undoubted error in the SkyTrak unit, doesn't seem outlandish at all really?

Your 7 iron which you say seems spot on displays a 20 yard difference between swings in of itself!

Just food for thought and not really trying to make a point or anything.

[wbond]

Obviously you should have distance gaps between clubs. That is not the point. The shorter clubs do not show correct carry distance from what I see in the real world. This is what's being reported by some others as well. They also do not come close to what is shown on the flightscope trajectory optimizer which is considered a pretty accurate tool to use. I selected two shots that were comparable, one from the logo facing the unit and one with no logo as well as what i considered decent swings. We are calling into question the carry distance of shorter clubs. Seems at least for me 7 and above do not have this issue.

And yes, i had two outliers on the 7 iron which is why I have to pay to play golf. All the others are pretty much what i see out on the course.

I'm an amateur of amateurs (ie: not good) when it comes to golf, but isn't ~10-15 yards the expected difference between irons?

Average PW is 97 Average 9 is 114 Delta is 17
Average 9 is 114 Average 7 is 151 Delta is 37 / 2 is 18.5 to account for the missing 8 Iron.

Seems maybe a little on the high side, but between human inconsistency and the undoubted error in the SkyTrak unit, doesn't seem outlandish at all really?

Your 7 iron which you say seems spot on displays a 20 yard difference between swings in of itself!

Just food for thought and not really trying to make a point or anything.

[goatbarn]

Could be confusing to some non-technical folk. But it looks like the data captured by the Skytrak is good, it's just the high spin/launch angle shots aren't carrying as far as they should, and this is a ball flight algorithm problem which can be updated by Skytrak in time.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

Hi Everyone,

Finally back from a much needed break with the family. Thank you for your patience while I was out. I've finally made it through everything I missed on the forum and am happy to read that most of you either received your units or at least have them on the way. Looks like things are going well with first impressions except for one issue that is already in the works – wedges and short irons, but more specifically high spin shots.

We have already identified the issue and a solution for what you are all describing with certain high spin shots. There’s some folks on this forum that really know what they are talking about, and have correctly pointed out that the issue lies in an algorithm. Let me stress to you that this is simply a CALCULATION issue in the flight model - not a measurement issue. If you take a look at the fundamental measured launch data parameters, they will be correct for every club in your bag. This distance and club speed improvement for high spin shots will be included in a software update as soon as possible, but please understand the importance of diligently testing such a change to the flight model prior to releasing. Because Apple is closed for 2 weeks in December, I am looking at early-mid January. In the meantime, there is an interim software update coming within the next 10 days - you will soon see full release notes for this update on our site, and there is plenty more packed into this release.

That said, I need to completely devote my time now to that software update to make sure everything gets in on time. I really value all of your feedback and will be looking forward to returning to the board at a later time. But for now, please address any immediate concerns to SkyTrak customer support and follow our Facebook page and website for all the latest news, particularly on software updates. With so much going on, it's important that we consolidate our communication to one place for now.

Again, thanks to everyone for your feedback and especially to Spudly who did some awesome grunt work uploading some videos and posting a review. Contrary to popular belief, he has absolutely no affiliation to SkyTrak but he does get a big thumbs up for his efforts

Thanks,
Seth

[pctekbr]

best news i have heard today. thanks seth.

[t4t3r]

Wish I'd have gotten in on the pre order price, or even the Facebook offer they had Monday now. Nice to see a response quickly from the manufacturer.

[hks8888]

Welcome back, Seth. Thanks for the update. Glad to hear that you are working on the issue some of us has experienced. Overall, I am satisfied with the product.
Guys, I went to a driving range and hit some balls on the turf (no mats there). Cold weather (39 degrees) and a little windy. I wish I could give you a good review, but I'm sorry I can't. The main reason is that the range balls were in really poor condition. Dirty balls put out weird numbers. Relatively cleaner balls seems to be read properly by SkyTrak, but I didn't have enough samples to get convinced. Because I hit on the turf Skytrak's camera window got dirty on every shot.
Hopefully, somebody else can do a quality review on an outdoor range session.

[fhann]

Welcome back, Seth. Thanks for the update. Glad to hear that you are working on the issue some of us has experienced. Overall, I am satisfied with the product.
Guys, I went to a driving range and hit some balls on the turf (no mats there). Cold weather (39 degrees) and a little windy. I wish I could give you a good review, but I'm sorry I can't. The main reason is that the range balls were in really poor condition. Dirty balls put out weird numbers. Relatively cleaner balls seems to be read properly by SkyTrak, but I didn't have enough samples to get convinced. Because I hit on the turf Skytrak's camera window got dirty on every shot.
Hopefully, somebody else can do a quality review on an outdoor range session.

Outdoor sessions have a lot variables like temperature, wind, elevation, ball type etc. that are not inherent within the Skytrak software reporting, since it is an optic based machine. Indoor testing eliminates almost all of the variables. That is why I have preferred clubfitting sessions being completed within my indoor studio with my Flightscope. However, I have great confidence in my launch monitor matching ideal outdoor conditions since I have spent the time to confirm it is performing with equal results both indoors and outdoors on several occasions when the outdoor conditions match the indoor conditions during that same day. I only live a short distance from my driving range and golf course so I have been able to take the launch monitor from indoors to outdoors on good days and confirm the calibration of the launch monitor.

On another note, earlier another poster mentioned that the Flightscope Ball Trajectory optimizer that is located on the Flightscope website does not have the backspin/sidespin feature and they had to play with the azimuth angle until they were able to closely approximate the side spin number that the SkyTrak recorded and then use that result as the basis for comparison to the SkyTrak data. That is a little bit awkward to do, and that is why I prefer to use Optimal Flight software as my calibration software since it has the feature of backspin/sidespin or total spin/spin axis reporting.

I am glad to hear that Seth has replied about the high spin controversy with regards to carry distance. I have heard from the developers of Trajectoware driver ball modeling software that the algorithm is very, very complicated and sensitive to high spin/high ball speeds scenarios when modeling the ball flight. It was so difficult that they only developed their software for drivers. They were trying to advance their software for irons but have not completed that over the last 5 years. One of the developers is Dave Tutelman who has had a large presence over the last 15 years within the sceince/physics discussions of the golf industry.

Thanks for all of your patience with this long post. This area of discussion is fascinating, filled with tons of complex material/equipment that is very difficult and certainly very time consuming to understand.

[Maverick]

Welcome back, Seth. Thanks for the update. Glad to hear that you are working on the issue some of us has experienced. Overall, I am satisfied with the product.
Guys, I went to a driving range and hit some balls on the turf (no mats there). Cold weather (39 degrees) and a little windy. I wish I could give you a good review, but I'm sorry I can't. The main reason is that the range balls were in really poor condition. Dirty balls put out weird numbers. Relatively cleaner balls seems to be read properly by SkyTrak, but I didn't have enough samples to get convinced. Because I hit on the turf Skytrak's camera window got dirty on every shot.
Hopefully, somebody else can do a quality review on an outdoor range session.

Aside from getting the unit dirty, dirt and grass will interfere with the cameras.

[Maverick]

Thanks for all of your patience with this long post. This area of discussion is fascinating, filled with tons of complex material/equipment that is very difficult and certainly very time consuming to understand.

Thanks for sharing fhann. Your insight is highly appreciated. Welcome to the forum.

[HWoods]

Hi Everyone,

Finally back from a much needed break with the family. Thank you for your patience while I was out. I've finally made it through everything I missed on the forum and am happy to read that most of you either received your units or at least have them on the way. Looks like things are going well with first impressions except for one issue that is already in the works – wedges and short irons, but more specifically high spin shots.

We have already identified the issue and a solution for what you are all describing with certain high spin shots. There’s some folks on this forum that really know what they are talking about, and have correctly pointed out that the issue lies in an algorithm. Let me stress to you that this is simply a CALCULATION issue in the flight model - not a measurement issue. If you take a look at the fundamental measured launch data parameters, they will be correct for every club in your bag. This distance and club speed improvement for high spin shots will be included in a software update as soon as possible, but please understand the importance of diligently testing such a change to the flight model prior to releasing. Because Apple is closed for 2 weeks in December, I am looking at early-mid January. In the meantime, there is an interim software update coming within the next 10 days - you will soon see full release notes for this update on our site, and there is plenty more packed into this release.

That said, I need to completely devote my time now to that software update to make sure everything gets in on time. I really value all of your feedback and will be looking forward to returning to the board at a later time. But for now, please address any immediate concerns to SkyTrak customer support and follow our Facebook page and website for all the latest news, particularly on software updates. With so much going on, it's important that we consolidate our communication to one place for now.

Again, thanks to everyone for your feedback and especially to Spudly who did some awesome grunt work uploading some videos and posting a review. Contrary to popular belief, he has absolutely no affiliation to SkyTrak but he does get a big thumbs up for his efforts

Thanks,
Seth

Great work on being proactive and posting here about the issues and showing your new customers that you guys will be continuing to improve the unit. It's good to see. I'm curious to know about the big push slices that register as straigher shots, the ones Spudly was talking about. Have you guys identified such an issue?

[FaultyClubs]

...ball modeling software that the algorithm is very, very complicated and sensitive to high spin/high ball speeds scenarios when modeling the ball flight. ...<snip>.... They (Trajectoware) were trying to advance their software for irons but have not completed that over the last 5 years...

Seems a quick fix is unlikely then..? Hopefully the hardware is up to the task and it is "only" software.

Does the GC2 exhibit this tendency or does it prove the problem is inherently solvable.

[Mike Z]

It is only the software from everything I can tell. The numbers being measured are being measured correctly - or at least make sense as to what I am used to seeing on my instructor's flightscope. I used brand new balls yesterday and the numbers were a little closer on the wedges, etc, but still short. Glad to see Seth come on here and give us info. If only that info included a support # or email to use...... Can anyone help me with this issue: My sessions are saving very weird. Says I am using a Driver even though I used a bunch of different clubs and that makes it hard to go back an analyze the session. Also says the sessions are lasting a lot longer than they are. I think may have to do with registration because I was never presented with that option within the app - I downloaded it and logged-into it before my unit was shipped. Thanks for any help here.... A couple of things that would be nice regarding the app: Skills challenge would be nice if it would separate out your swings from player 2 - for later analysis purposes. It would also be really nice to have a portal that would allow you to see your data outside of the app and maybe download it to remove outliers (read: poor swings) to adjust averages, etc.

[bkcorwin]

Exciting stuff. I had wondered if it was all in people's heads but looks like theres a more real underlying issue. Are all of the ball flight models proprietary research or are there any journal articles that speak about these implementations. I can't seem to dig up anything recent and pertinent.

Brian

[bkcorwin]

well oops, heres a reference from 2013 about a ball flight model

http://www.ijimt.org/papers/419-D0260.pdf