SkyTrak distances are short

[EG$]

968Cab,

My side by side comparison ended up with similar results with the exception of driver. Noticeable ball speed discrepancies begin to show up around 150mph. I play a 17 degree fairway wood (4 wood) that I max out around 148 and it reads this club accurately. I have no issues with my entire bag until I get to my driver. My average ball speed with my driver with a controlled aggressive swing is in the mid to high 150s, occasionally hitting one on the screws that will go over 160. The highest I’ve ever been able to get the SkyTrak to read is 156 and that was a swing out of my shoes and hit it on the screws swing.

In your testing you used an 8 iron and your average ball speed was around 100mph. Based off of this I suspect your driver ball speed would be about 140 which keeps you below the 150 threshold and you shouldn’t have any problem with shortages throughout your whole bag.

I have a CCE and a FB strip and I’m still searching for something that replicates my real course turf...

[Morini]

I have a CCE and a FB strip and I’m still searching for something that replicates my real course turf...

Sorry to take the thread somewhat OT, but I think this addresses some of the issues for the OP.

I am a tinkerer. I might just play around with this. Here are the issues with mats as I understand it:

1. For mats that don't give, tendonitis.
2. For mats that let the club head bounce into the ball, false feedback. You think you are hitting it well, but in reality, fat.
3. For mats that "grab", twisting of the club face, resulting in excessive HLA and spin axis.
4. For all mats to a degree, not enough friction between ball and turf, leading to ball rolling up face resulting in higher launch, lower spin. Which leads to sim differential to real life carry.

FB seems to take care of 1 to 3, and do a better job than most on 4. Can this be improved upon? Can we combine the best aspects of other mats? Use stiffer bristles, but backed by a flexible membrane (divot action style), and perhaps even the movable sliding action of fairway pro? Or can the friction be increased some other way?

I would love to see impact at 2000 FPS slow motion from real turf and every type of mat.

[cmckelvmi]

If you could create this mat that has the best of all worlds I would be one of your first customers.

[jrz]

Well said.

[Brettster]

There is a post up here that may solve all 4 of these, use the FB, with a motorcycle 'gel seat' underneath the hitting area. Search for motorcycle, it's likely to come up and at the time I thought it would do exactly what you are describing and create the most realistic hitting mat.

See my post down below, I found the post describing how to do this, and where to buy the Gel for it...

[EG$]

Morini - If I was to take a stab at this and had the materials to build it, I would try the following to combine the best of all worlds:

Stiffer bristles or more bristle density, shorter bristles (around 1/2 inch), very hard rubber with minimal give beneath the bristles, and about a 2 inch divot slide (spring loaded) for divot action.

If mats produce less spin and a higher launch, I'm guessing its because ball contact and the subsequent compression is occurring too high on the face making the smash factor for irons creep closer to 1.5 than it should be. I've actually never looked at mat vs. real turf smash factor differences with the same club. I'd be curious to see what these numbers look like.

[Morini]

Great ideas. The ball speed, spin and launch angle numbers should tell me if I am onto something.
Andrew Rice did some work on wedge spin years ago: https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andre...wedges-part-ii
Also, this experiment has been referenced many times on this forum. It compared CCE mat versus turf, and it was a huge difference: https://blog.trackmangolf.com/mats-v...ts-difference/

[jrz]

Morini Am I reading the data in the trackman link correctly? It seems to show that the higher launch angle along with less spin is leading to longer carries, which is opposite of what most report in regards to sim differential to real life carry.

[Morini]

Morini Am I reading the data in the trackman link correctly? It seems to show that the higher launch angle along with less spin is leading to longer carries, which is opposite of what most report in regards to sim differential to real life carry.

I could be wrong on this, but I think it depends on club. While it may launch higher, the lower spin offsets by lowering actual trajectory. I will play around with flightscope trajectory optimizer. What I am trying to wrap my head around is how and why tee'd shot spins more than turf. By that logic, maybe the answer to recreating fairway ball characteristics is to tee the ball up a fraction?

[jrz]

I could be wrong on this, but I think it depends on club. While it may launch higher, the lower spin offsets by lowering actual trajectory. I will play around with flightscope trajectory optimizer. What I am trying to wrap my head around is how and why tee'd shot spins more than turf. By that logic, maybe the answer to recreating fairway ball characteristics is to tee the ball up a fraction?

Could it be that the turf's friction dampens the amount of force applied to the ball by the club? In other words, the clubface makes contact with the ball, the friction between the clubface and ball causes the ball to spin. At the same time, if the ball is sitting on turf, the friction of the turf fights back against the force being applied by the club, therefore reducing the amount of spin. When the ball is on a tee there is no fighting back, and as a result more of the club's energy is transferred into spin.

[Wizard of Coz]

I want a live match with you jrz. Calling you out bruh. Wizard gonna make you 4putt the eighteenth hole to lose! Can you handle Wizard's pressure cooker?

[FaultyClubs]

I think ball/mat friction can be ignored. The friction force is miniscule compared to the club impact force.

Those tests have a lot of uncontrolled variables. I wouldn't conclude too much from them.

[Morini]

think ball/mat friction can be ignored. The friction force is miniscule compared to the club impact force.

They are not competing forces. When you take an icy corner too fast in your muscle car, a handful of sand on the surface goes a long way.

Those studies are not perfect, but there is ample supporting anecdotal evidence indicating that mats launch higher with less spin.

The challenge is to first of all understand the physics behind this, and then try to improve mats to better match on course ball behaviour for the gamut of swing styles.

[Brettster]

Ok, I found the post I with the Motorcycle Gel seat underneath the mat. Actually there are 2 posts that describe using it:

1.) This one is the one I read first: https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...or-only-271-50

2.) This one appears to be a modification of it, for about $100 less: https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...for-around-175

and here is where you can buy the Gel material, for about $70: https://www.onlygel.com/collections/...d-stock-series

I hope that helps...

[GungHoGolf]

Ok, I found the post I with the Motorcycle Gel seat underneath the mat. Actually there are 2 posts that describe using it:

1.) This one is the one I read first: https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...or-only-271-50

2.) This one appears to be a modification of it, for about $100 less: https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...for-around-175

and here is where you can buy the Gel material, for about $70: https://www.onlygel.com/collections/...d-stock-series

I hope that helps...

I wrote the post in your #2 link above about making a DIY TrueStrike gel pad mat. Later in that thread you’ll see a post from me that I switched to a DIY DivotAction with 3/16” lexan under SynLawn Precision Putt turf, and prefer it to the gel. Can’t imagine a better hitting surface... taking “divots” with high AoA short irons feels perfect to me. The gel was still too much resistance (“grabby”) and encouraged a shallower AoA.

[Morini]

I remember reading that. Very interesting. I am still investigating different mat options. What type of spin & VLA does your diy divot action produce?

[GungHoGolf]

Spin and VLA compared to what? My studio iron distances are close to IRL, perhaps 3-5% long due to lower spin and higher launch which happens with any mat ime. I’m more concerned about feel thru impact (no grabbing or harshness), not training myself to be a picker, and having the lowest risk of injury.

[Brettster]

GungHoGolf yes, exactly what I'm looking for. I want as close to IRL as possible and I am not going to become a 'picker' - I take healthy divots and want a mat that fully simulates that without adding any additional chance of injury.

Thanks for pointing that out, are the materials where you purchased the SynLawn and lexan listed? I'm thinking I will probably want to get a good mat in hand, or at least a plan for one soon.

[Morini]

Yes, how close to real real turf vs other mats. Agreed all mats launch higher with less spin. Some are obviously closer than others. Good point about injury concern. Trajectory can be compensated for. Tendinitis or wrist fracture not so much

[968Cab]

As a follow up to my testing/research/findings...relative to my personal AoA and the feedback we discussed earlier in the thread...

I purchased an actual Divot Action, and built a DIY gel mat referencing Ron’s technique. Since I had the Fiberbuilt “tray” already, my goal was to have comparable hitting strips that insert next to the FB stance mat, just like the original FB strip. DAction can be ordered with “filler” for the front and back of the striking surface, for a tight fit. I then made the gel insert to the same size and used the same fillers.

I’ve concluded—for me—the Divot Action provides the most realistic feel and the most true-to-real life results.

I found the gel mat even worse than the FB strip for grab and shorted distances, and would expect to develop physical issues using it. I don’t think it would last very long based on the condition of the gel after very little use. I’m very glad I didn’t spend the money on a real TruStrike version!

DAction, combined with TGC19 boost set to 5, or SkyTrak altitude set to 3000’ (I’m at 700’), has just about zeroed in to my expected/real world distances.

The durability of the DAction will be the true tell, as even John discussed not repeatedly striking the same spot exclusively when I ordered over the phone...seems that’s kind of the point to get the feedback of the flexing. I’ve hit a couple hundred balls and played two rounds off of the DAction so far. The backside looks like the day it arrived, the turf shows little wear at all.

But at $130, I can buy more than one and still enjoy the results over the other options for similar total $$ (or try to replace the turf myself)

Fingers crossed.

[Morini]

Thank you for sharing. I have to make a decision soon. I have a fibrebuilt flight deck for now, but will have build something more elaborate when I go to full sim. My goal is to have lowest launch & highest spin possible in a mat, realistic feel, while also not promoting bad swing habits.

Divot action is best for you. The million dollar question is whether that is true for others. I suppose it depends on AoA among other factors.

[Brettster]

Thanks for your comparison... Sounds like I'll start with a DAction first and go from there. I do know that playing on local sims without any cushion underneath always leads to wrist pain for me, and that's barely playing at all (maybe 18 holes every month), and wow the pain!