Skytrak ball flight vs TGC2019 ball flight

[Saybobby]

I've just started playing in the Q School society for TGC2019 - super fun!

One thing I've noticed, is the ball flights are quite different than the Skytrak driving range ball flight. It's throwing me of quite a bit. There are two aspects that are off for me, one which is manageable and one which is not.

1) Distances - I am getting much far distances (both carry and roll) compared to skytrak. i just club down so it's ok. and skytrak i set to soft ground so i get less roll there anyway.

2) huge overdraw, like 20-30 yards left. i find myself in a lot of hazards. my natural ball flight is a draw. on skytrak i get more of a right start anyway so my dispersion is maybe a slight push to a draw of maybe 5-10 yards left of target. skytrak is close to my real life ball flight minus any indoor swing things. ie i dont get close to my driver distance indoors as outdoors, but irons are pretty close.

has anyone else noticed this? are there any settings i can tweak but still be ok to play online society?

thanks!
bobby

[SkeetShooter]

I see more carry distance and roll out in general in TGC2019. One thing that I find odd (and I know its calculated so I shouldn't care too much) is the calculated Swing speed and ball speed numbers. I'll absolutely stripe a 3 wood which I know has a ball speed of around 140-145mph and generally a 100mph clubhead speed, and it will show up in TGC2019 as 125mph ball speed and a swing speed of like 89. I've verified on trackman.
TC2019 should just be taking the exact information from ST but I feel like its taking some off some where.

[RAB_74]

I see exactly the same as you describe Bobby. Since buying Tgc2019 a few months ago I haven't used the skytrak app much, just a few shots on the range a couple of times. I worked hard last year to cure my tendency to slice the ball and during the fall I managed to build a somewhat more consistent swing and a slight draw pattern, most of the time at least.
After playing only in Tgc over the winter I have had real trouble because I often overdraw my shots or even hook the ball. I feel it has gotten worse over time and have messed around with my grip, stance, ball placements etc. and struggled to identify what is causing it. I thought for sure I had 'overdone' it while trying to cure my slice and then developed a too much of an inside to out club path. I often play the same tee shots over and over 10-15 times using "automatic rewind", for practice sake, so it is not because of switching clubs back and forth, hitting different shots etc.

But on wednesday I updated to the new version of the skytrak app and had a training session using only the range and skills assessment in the app. After hitting only a few shots I thought "wow, maybe I'm not so bad anyway?", the difference compared to in tgc was huge, dispersion was much narrower than in tgc and my tendency (most good strikes) were a slight draw.

I see the same as you on distances, there's about a 10% difference between the skytrak app and in tgc2019. I had to go a club up in the skytrak app to get the same carry as in tgc.

[Dizzle71]

I wanted to second that about updating to the new skytrak software v3.4.1. Had TGC2019 for awhile now and it has always seemed to over emphasize pulls, hooks, slices etc... Not all the time but randomly. Like when you hit a good tee shot and you know it and the ball goes 40 yards left. Tried so many things to fix it. Lighting, backdrop, ball placement, dusting off laser, etc... Nothing really ever "worked".

Last night I updated to skytrak 3.4.1. After warming up on the skytrak range, fired up TGC2019 and all I can say is WOW. Swings were much more inline with how I was swinging and I didn't have any crazy reads though two rounds of playing. It was so much of a change that I thought the software was broken. There was no change in my environment at all. Just a software update.

I mean I hit a small pull and the ball went straight. But looking closer at the shot, the ball did pull a bit. I was just so used to the exaggerations when playing in tgc2019 before that, that I need to retrain my brain on whats correct now in tgc2019.

Over in the the other skytrak thread, they are saying that this skytrak update has no affect on TGC2019. I don't know if I believe it or not. What ever happened, it changed TGC2019 for the better.

[Jgold2790]

I've seen the same thing, especially on the roll out distance. I've also seen misreads that I don't see on the skytrak range. Usually it fans out to the right (when I know I didn't hit a huge slice) and it goes for a much longer distance than it should. 7 irons going 235 with a 50 yard slice etc.

[mkboyack]

I get this happening as well. I usually have a pretty good feel for where a ball is going before it shows up on the screen. I have found that it is often times better when i point a logo or some text on the golf ball at the Skytrak unit. I play a good amount with Vice balls which seem to have a lot of empty space on the ball. Assuming i have something pointed at the Skytrak it is usually few and far between on the long, right misreads.

[Saybobby]

THanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one and going crazy. I did hit outdoors the other day and it seemed marginally better. Additionally, because it did better outdoors (different mat actually), I tried again indoors with the skytrak not sitting on the mat, and it seemed to also be slightly better? Or maybe I just happened to be pushing all my shots that day and TGC2019 flight gave it a slight draw - i didnt get a chance to do a skytrak range/tgc side by side result this time.

[Fhacker]

Get skytrak off the mat and raise it to your mat level r just slightly higher. I have best results that way. Less misreads both in full shots an$ putts. I think that is the general concensus here

[Saybobby]

Thanks, I'll definitely do that on the next time i play and compare results!

Bobby

[StodgyBarley]

Interesting...I've noticed some similarities here too... but I'm curious as I thought there was NO firmware update to the Skytrak in 3.4.1. I don't understand how TGC would behave any differently without a firmware update or update to the TGC/Skytrak Interface. Am I missing something? Thanks!

[Morini]

First just a quick primer on different processes of the sim:

• ST produces two images of ball and sends to external device (PC, ipad etc).
• Image processing engine on the device compares two pictures and calculates ball data (VLA, HLA, ball speed etc)
• Ball data is sent to sim (ST range, TGC, E6 etc)
• Sim feeds ball data to ball flight model.
• In a sim, the ball flight model may then feed landing ball data to a different roll out model.

ST measures ball data and passes it on to respective ball flight models. ST range uses a different ball flight model than TGC, so there will some differences in ball flight.

• Hardware: Absolutely no changes. Update did not involve firmware. Two pictures get sent to PC, just as before.

• Image processing: There has been a change to ST image processing engine in order to improve ball speed reads for 150+ ball speeds. TGC is not using this engine yet so for high ball speeds, TGC ball flight model wiill be fed a SLOWER ball speed. This should be the ONLY change affecting ball behavior in update.

• Ball flight model: As mentioned, ST range and TGC use a different models. The TGC one takes spin decay into account, and should have realistic hooks and slices. ST range will have EXAGGERATED hooks and slices.

• Horizontal launch angle: It would be nigh impossible for a ball flight model to screw up launch direction. If there is a difference in pushes and pulls, it must be user error in some way. I never used TGC, but maybe target line offset is different enough that users subconsciously push or pull the ball. Lay down an alignment stick on the ground for your target line, and/or mark the screen or hang a string. It should confirm whether starting direction is accurate in respective sim.

• Roll out etc: The roll out in ST is not based on physics and is not very accurate. I ignore it. Obviously TGC roll out matters, and needs to be accurate. I never used TGC, but assume that it uses some physics, so a lot depends on course geometry (slope etc) and course conditions. If well implemented, TGC roll out should be realistic, but I am not sure. I do know that ST is not. Also don't forget that TGC may have wind and elevation factors affecting ball flight.

[GungHoGolf]

Just a minor correction: image processing is done on the PC or mobile device, by a Rapsodo software SDK.

[Morini]

Missed your reply. Sorry, by device I meant ipad/pc etc. It does do some cropping on the ST before it sends.

[Shipwreck34]

Wow! Even the SDK has software? Next thing you know we're gonna have to upgrade our NIC cards to get the data, and authenticate with CAC cards! Need to go get more money from the ATM Machine first.

(I'm just messin with ya )

[Shipwreck34]

So, question... Something not mentioned here is how you can set up the ST for Elevation and Humidity, where I believe those two attributes are static in TGC2019, right? Plus you can set the firmness of the turf in ST range (as you can in game in TGC2019) but I have no idea what it's default is in the TGC Range.

Just throwing that out there for discussion.

[Morini]

I don't have ST app in front of me, but it is not hard to find. Session settings maybe?

Roll out is so dependent. I don't find ST realistic no matter how I set it, so I look at carry only.

TGC2019 actually uses physics, so actual slopes and contours come into play. I have heard complains about the realism of those physics. I don't know enough about it to an opinion one way or the other.

[Saybobby]

Morini : It's interesting that about the point about spin decay - I've actually had the opposite effect where I have more drastic hooks or overdraws in TGC, and rarely a push or anything that goes right unless I already know it's an obvious slice, whereas at some times i can get a slight push, push draw in the skytrak range.

[RMZ4104]

Same thing here Bobby, on the ST range my shots have my typical ball flight (slight draw) and distances. Anything on TGC 2019 is a huge hook with short distances. TGC is unplayable for me.

[RMZ4104]

I should've mentioned that I have reached out to ProTee and the response I was given was that "TGC uses the raw ball data it receives from the ST. It does not manipulate or change anything." The shot flight and distance I see suggests otherwise. I can go straight from the ST range to the TGC range and the difference is huge with no other variables changing. I wish they could give us a setting to adjust the spin or something, I mean they give you the option to hit a 500 yard drive if you want to. It would at least make the product enjoyable.

[wbond]

What are the actual ball measurements on range vs tgc?