Bushnell Launch Pro

[Atlgopher]

Received an email today (mostly marketing jargon)

it does say it will capture critical ball and club performance factors....... whatever that means

[pcascio]

I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of add-on subscription fees.

[pcascio]

I wish Bushnell would give us a little info about the Launch Pro. Since the Garmin R10 will be out well before the Launch Pro, it would be nice if we could make an informed decision about which to buy.

[Gresh12]

I’d like info fir interest sake as I will consider upgrading from my Mevo+ to Launch Pro depending on features/cost but I don’t think Foresight/Bushnell are worried about losing sales to Garmin here. I think they are targeting very different markets and price points as the Launch Pro has to cost at a minimum $2k (if they want to go after Skytrak/Mevo+) but I’m expecting a $5k price point which compared to $700 ish fit Garmin if memory serves isn’t the same audience.

[MarkSC]

From email received today:

"The Launch Pro combines proprietary infrared with three high-speed, high-resolution cameras to deliver tour-level performance and accuracy for every golfer. It captures thousands of images per second, giving you the most accurate and complete picture of impact and ball flight."

An email they sent me last week showed two separate units: infrared behind and a camera unit to the side, which we now know is 3 cameras. My conclusion is that this is going to be a high-end system rather than something to compete in the < $4,000 space.

[Gresh12]

What did you get that spoke about infrared?

The email I got last week had a photo of a radar behind the golfer but it was illustrating radar can’t see what’s going on at impact. I don’t think it was suggesting a secondary device.

[MarkSC]

Ah, I must have misread that. So I guess their infrared is going to function like SkyTrak in the sense that it will measure trajectory and speed while the cameras capture spin.

[Morini]

How can infrared measure trajectory? Infrared light? Infrared camera? (they all are, skytrak included)

[Juddwah]

[Noob20]

Sure would be nice to hear details about what specific data is measured and the price point. This opaque marketing campaign is frustrating. What is the point of not telling the audience what your product does and how much it will cost?

[pcascio]

"Three eyes are better than 2." I would interpret this as a direct comparison to the Skytrak, and would therefore assume a price of about $2000, the same as ST.
I wish they would tell us before the Garmin R10 goes on sale.

[Morini]

Also a reference to upgrade over GC2. It takes hundreds of pictures of the ball, so it is more quad than GC2. Like a quad without full club data. I don't think it will be lower than $4K. Since it sounds like an upgrade to GC2, maybe in that range ($6K+), but since they are going with Bushnell for sales, maybe an aggressive attempt at capturing market share, so $4-$5 K.

[Morini]

The Garmin and the Bushnell won't be in the same universe. The Garmin sits well below the Skytrak/Mevo+ in price, and likely also capability. The Bushnell sits well above Skytrak/Mevo+ in price, and probably in capability as well. My guess is that it will be quad accurate ball data.

[pcascio]

I agree, but I don't want to buy the Garmin at $600 if the Bushnell is in the $2000 range. At $4000, I'd hardly label it "For Everyone." Regardless, this is a very fun time for launch monitor enthusiasts. I think we're in the verge of a more affordable set of options at all levels.

[Karazy]

At the parent company of Bushnell’s investor call, it was mentioned that preorders will go live in September and it will release in October.

Just throwing in my two cents. Since the partnership with bushnell is likely a ploy to get into retail stores such as golf galaxy, I really doubt that those types of retail stores would want to carry a $5k+ product. My guess is they make a small profit on the physical product (priced around $3-5k) + an ongoing monthly/yearly subscription. I hope the initial investment is on the smaller side but the technology in these is not cheap.

[Morini]

It could be to utilize Bushnells retail channels, but also to insualte Foresight from consumers (you know the type that install batteries backwards and then call tech support complaining). I know that Golftown carries Skytrak and has sold GC2 in the past. The risk with pricing low is that users buy and then sit on hardware without pricey subscriptions.

[Csarran]

Mentioned this product to a friend of mine who works on a tour truck. Spoke to foresight guy and word is it’s $2999 plus yearly subscription. All I know.

[Gresh12]

I think Foresight going to Bushnell is a very strategic way of hitting a totally different market with largely the same technology knowing they want to come downstream without hitting GC4 sales/price. I expect they have a lot of margin in the hardware for GC4 but obviously need it to pay for R&D and make a profit.

It’s following Flightscope but taking a further strategic step back to keep the GC4 as the premium product and shelter some questions about the price gap. Flightscope has a huge gap between Mevo+ and X3 that optically is just hard for most consumers to visually look at (is this $2k thing garbage if the real one is $20k or how can I contemplate $20k for something “almost as good” available at $2k are statements I could see all but the most informed purchaser thinking).

Both Foresight and Bushnell will want some profit but I think they are trying to monetize their technology without needing any R&D time so the hardware could be priced not a ton above cost and then find a revenue model in software they are already creating (or strike a deal with E6 to get recurring revenue as I’m sure Flightscope did).

I’ll be ecstatic if it comes in at $3k but for those that think it will be highly priced I don’t see how they get enough volume if they try to come in at more than about $5k as once you starting hitting $8k ish you may as well get a GC4 that could add club data down the road in my opinion. I may be proven wrong but $5k or less to me is where it has to land strategically based on current market.

[Gresh12]

Depends what you get for the subscription (and it’s cost). I’m not as anti annual fee as many on here if you’re getting decent software that gets maintained. I prefer the Trackman model to software pricing/approach than Foresight.

It also depends how much tech this keeps from GC4 which remains to be seen. I’d hazard a guess new cameras have to be better (no replaceable flash I think), the alignment stick would be awesome as I move my device daily (sometimes multiple times), the case seems more damage resistant, will have some club data (maybe just swing speed) and comes with 2 year warranty presumably (guessing 1 year from manufacturer then credit card extension) and likely holds its resale better outside the hardcore audience.

I can’t see how a GC2 is better outside of potential software options but spending the same on a 10 year old device made by the same company (it’s hard for me to believe in 10 years the leader in camera systems has made no progress) is hard for me to wrap my head around. I know this can be argued that unlocked software and no annual fee is great but I’m not jumping to that being better value without more info.

I’m also not sure you can get a GC2 for $3k based on the recent device listing (granted their value will either sky rocket if people want the unlocked or plummet if a new potentially better unit comes out at $3k). In any case my interest is very piqued until I see some big catch which I think will be tough for them to add and expect to sell the volume I’d expect they want to.

[Morini]

bubbtubbs, yes, the GC2 is an alternative in the short term, but won't be available forever. I am not sure exactly how this fee/subscription model would work. What exactly are you charging for? Most likely, basic range will be free, just like skytrak.

[bubbtubbs]

These are all fair points, but I've seen too many instances where discontinuation of proprietary software features (like multiplayer matchmaking) or DRM issues in games have rendered them unplayable, despite having paid for ownership. A good contemporary example is Blizzard breaking legacy Warcraft III copies with their release of Reforged, which lacked features the original had, or R-motion users being unable to install TGC on new devices because the server the program looked for no longer exists.

I'd rather pay a couple extra thousand and have full control over my hardware and software than subscribe monthly. That's not even getting into Foresight's horrible track record for third-party software support - the primary reason I will likely never own a Quad or Hawk.

[pcascio]

I hope it not $3,000, that would be a deal killer for me as I can't see it being much better than a Skytrak, nor 5 times better than a Garmin R10.
I really think the magic number is around $2000 to compete directly with the ST. Of course, that could be wishful thinking.

[bubbtubbs]

Morini I'm aware it's a software issue, but it's probably fair to guess that if it hasn't been fixed on the Skytrak range after this long, it won't be.

[Morini]

Yes, it will be in next release. But as mentioned, most sim users are TGC2019, and it is a non-issue.

[bubbtubbs]

Which sort of reinforces my original point, since the TGC program cost around the previously aforementioned amount to purchase, plus requiring a yearly fee to use.

Better hardware and a higher quality range application is worth the money.

[alexsmith11]

I hope it not $3,000, that would be a deal killer for me as I can't see it being much better than a Skytrak, nor 5 times better than a Garmin R10.
I really think the magic number is around $2000 to compete directly with the ST. Of course, that could be wishful thinking.

Some thoughts from a former Skytrak owner, now on a GC2. If this was only an upgraded GC2, at $3k it would still sell like hotcakes.
The main reason I made the switch from Skytrak were the no reads on what felt like the purest strikes ever. Looking at the technical specs of both machines you see that the GC2 has much tighter tolerances, with a larger launch window to capture the ball, and a more accurate launch direction;

	Skytrak	GC2
Ball Speed	0-200mph +/- 1mph	2-200+mph +/- 0.5mph
Launch Angle	0-55* +/- 1*	0-70* +/- 0.2*
Backspin	0-12,000rpm +/- 250rpm	range not defined +/- 50rpm
side spin	0-4,000 +/- 250rpm	range not defined +/- 50rpm
azimuth	0-20* +/- 2*	range not defined +/- 1*

Now if the Bushnell keeps all the tolerances of the GC2 and adds some club head data, this will be a mega home run at $3k.

Where I think they will get us is that they will fix the fact that TGC2019 (and other "non supported" 3rd party softwares) work with their hardware. But I suspect they will either go the route Skytrak went and require purchase and activation for these softwares to work on the units or as others have also suggested in this thread, launch a subscription model.

Exciting times in the launch monitor / simulator world.

[Morini]

not totally accurate. Skytrak currently can't read spin under 2024, but I believe that is due to be fixed. Also skytraks official launch angle limit is 53 degrees, but practically, it is about 50. Skytrak HLA is quite poor (+-2 degrees?) and while no side on photometric is ideal for HLA, the additional pictures will vastly improve on skytraks HLA reads. For sure the launch pro will beat those GC2 tolerances. It takes hundreds to pictures, just like the quad. What does GC2 take? A dozen? Not sure, but around that many.

[alexsmith11]

Yeah I know about the 2024 spin (saw it too many times to not notice), but for simplicity of my post grabbed the numbers directly from Skytrak site

https://www.skytrakgolf.com/ca/support/system-requirements

If the bushnell launch pro gets azimuth tolerance below +\- 1* , that will be absolutely amazing. Although I do find the GC2 azimuth plenty accurate, and GC Quad is probably better

[Morini]

My guess is that on typical reads, GC2 and Quad have similar azimuth, with skytrak actually not far behind. But quad has far fewer outliers.

[HappyGilmore102]

Hi Everyone

The only clubhead data this unit will give us is probably Clubhead speed.

At 3k i would buy a bushnell for basic range practice and stick with skytrak for simulation play options.

I cant see this product being opened to TGC which will rule it out for my sim play.

I think this will be foresights big push of their simulation software which doesn't look great and most probably will be pricey and is not selling well hence the bundling with new and refurb GC2's.

How much will they charge to access basic range numbers?

[Morini]

Great questions about sim software. If they are going with the Gillette model pricing (subsidized hardware, overprice refill), they will lock down sim options tight to recover their costs.

[HappyGilmore102]

Hi

Just watched another youtube review by ordinary guy (Shaun’s shanks) who received his garmin r10.

Read his comments and one of his reply's to a question asked was:

Fats and thins behave exactly as they would in real life, I have not used optishot, but it is a straight competitor to the skytrak in my opinion (I used to own a skytrak, and if both units were at skytrak price I would go for the garmin)

WOW!

[Morini]

Interesting. I really want to see side by behind comparison with quad, with spreadsheet of data. Should be any day now.

[bubbtubbs]

@Morini

It's incredible that nobody seems to have submitted something like this yet. Reviews are fairly useless without standardized data to compare directly.

[Dubbs]

Have you seen the indepth review from Hybridme? Spin axis is completely off. I could be wrong but I just don't see how a Garmin unit sitting at $600 to be truly accurate. I think it's a great tool for someone who wants to get some basic numbers but I wouldn't trust that those numbers will be as accurate as a Foresight/Trackman. The one good thing with the Garmin and new Bushnell release is that maybe Mevo +/Skytrak may release some club data with their units. If they don't....I don't see them doing well in the long run.