Software, Rewinds, Tournament Play

[wbond]

Problem is this argument goes both ways.

How do you feel about beating someone who gets shafted by their equipment? Sucks to be them because they can't afford a system with better tolerances/accuracy. Do people feel entitled to have an advantage over others because they have better equipment?

Player A, using skytrak lands next to the green and close to the pin and hits a chip that would be in gimme range but the ST reads it as going 20+degrees R or L and outside of gimme range and misses the putt. Just an example, but that's about as unfair as those who abuse rewinds.

Either kick people out of tournaments or no rewinds, which currently it will be the latter in TGC2019.

ST does a lousy job of reading short putts, so they put in the straight putting patch. In order to make it equitable, it was available to all. Can that be said about this?

With all the hardware options and limitations, it's not really cut and dry or has an easy solution. Some get an advantage and some get screwed.

BTW, i've played in over 280 tournament rounds with both ST and GC2 and could count on one hand how many rewinds I've taken. So I'm not really an advocate for them, but if they are honestly needed so be it. Last i heard no one was laying out money, winning money or getting anything tangible from these tournaments, so if it's changed please let me know, I have a lot of virtual TGC winnings I'd like to cash in.

How would you feel if you lost on that last hole not taking the rewind and then found out the guy that beat you by 2 took 2 rewinds. No rewinds. Yippee-ki-yayyy! Less baby sitting and more golfing for you too.

[Jwheels9876]

For the OP, every system has the occasional misread.
I have a GC2 and just got the M1 3 wood and its giving me some wacky readings with less than 400 backspin and launch angles of like 35 degrees sometimes.
I'm scared to use it in a tournament round and it costing me a couple strokes but what ya gonna do, it's fake golf anyway and nobody is cashing those fake checks at the end of the tournament

[bob chung]

When I hit a shank, I am not 100% sure I shanked..
I know I shanked 80% positive, but 20% hoping it was just bad contact..
many times, I can't tell where the ball hit on my impact screen, because I learned to keep my head down...
it's so tempting to hit rewind, and say it was miss read...
It's easier to just say...not a bad shot, but bad break...and move on..

[SZ]

I’m sort of dissapointed, but not really. I’ve never had a to take a rewind in a tournament round but it was good to know that if I ever did have an obvious miss-read, i could rewind and post an explanation. Oh well, either way, still golfing in the winter.

SZ

[Thundergolf]

Am I wrong in thinking, everything will balance out within your handicap? If your system has 3-4 missreads per round this will be reflected in your handicap. I'd rather it be done this way instead of leaving the discretion up to the individual.

[Mickey]

Anyone remember - say 3 years ago - when rewinds were common place? Guys with 15 caps were shooting 75 in 3 consecutive rounds. It was dumb. I think the tour lost some participants because it was so obvious. While I don't see a major problem now, I'm pleased to see rewinds turned off.

[Wizard of Coz]

Problem is this argument goes both ways.

How do you feel about beating someone who gets shafted by their equipment? Sucks to be them because they can't afford a system with better tolerances/accuracy. Do people feel entitled to have an advantage over others because they have better equipment?

Player A, using skytrak lands next to the green and close to the pin and hits a chip that would be in gimme range but the ST reads it as going 20+degrees R or L and outside of gimme range and misses the putt. Just an example, but that's about as unfair as those who abuse rewinds.

Either kick people out of tournaments or no rewinds, which currently it will be the latter in TGC2019.

ST does a lousy job of reading short putts, so they put in the straight putting patch. In order to make it equitable, it was available to all. Can that be said about this?

With all the hardware options and limitations, it's not really cut and dry or has an easy solution. Some get an advantage and some get screwed.

BTW, i've played in over 280 tournament rounds with both ST and GC2 and could count on one hand how many rewinds I've taken. So I'm not really an advocate for them, but if they are honestly needed so be it. Last i heard no one was laying out money, winning money or getting anything tangible from these tournaments, so if it's changed please let me know, I have a lot of virtual TGC winnings I'd like to cash in.

You know I have had that chip that you talk about go off line but I didn't use rewinds on them. Im sure some people would have. I accepted it and tried to make the putt. I had a much more difficult time accepting hitting the cart path on hole nine this week sending me into the drink. We don't use carts in the simulation. Who is designing cart paths on courses where there are no carts anyway! Lol

Wbond if you want some side bets no rewinds im in. Friendly bets on front back total. I can't afford the millions in sim wins your acustom to winning though. We can settle the bets over a round during the summer. Im in the kalamazoo area so not too far away. Ive always wanted to play leslie park municipal in Ann arbor.

I don't have a problem beating someone because their equipment lets them down or losing to someone because my equipment lets me down.
If I feel like I can't win with the skytrak, I'll start setting aside some coin for a gc2. Right now im still learning the courses and playing simulation. Hopefully I will get better at it but IMO skytrak isn't holding me back. I just need to get better at ball striking, managing the course and then learn some of the nuances to sim play. There is far more room for improvement in my game play vs how much im losing in the short falls of technology in sim play.

Im sure mthunt and keither won't miss reviewing and baby sitting some of us. Im guilty of already bothering them too much.

Game on No rewinds

TGC rocks,

Coz

[wbond]

Definitely in for a round this summer, but there are better ones than Leslie park. Stonebridge in Ann Arbor or the grande in Jackson if you haven’t played either of them.

[colinjm18]

This is one of them topics that will be debated until the end of time. Let’s face it no system is perfect all the time. I know I have miss reads when ever I play but I just live with it because they tend to even out over the round/season. But it can become very frustrating when you get a few bad reads in a row. But being as it’s on a simulator I find it better to switch off and come back another day.

My main misreads tend to be short game related but like others said it’s just for fun. And unfortunately the 40+degree launch I see with a driver isn’t a misread but swing related.

[aja]

Hello everybody!

Looks like the word "rewind" is a pretty strong trigger. All these replies to my original post and everyone stopped at "rewinds".

Maybe I don't know how to write clearly enough but my post was not an argument, pro or con, about rewinds.

The post was about whether software that reviews tournament scoring and highlights "rewinds", could be developed. That would reduce the amount of work for tournament organizers.

Please reread the post paying attention to the second paragraph and the last line.

The post is about software to catch rewinds!!! Repeat, software to catch rewinds!

[FirGir]

You're right, it does read differently when ignoring the first and third paragraphs.

[GripItAndRipIt]

I believe the tour is already using that software. I was contacted by Mthunt where he said I took 96 rewinds in one tournament and his system notified him of this.
We discovered that my system for some reason duplicates my shots on shot recording. Unfortunately for Mthunt that means every time I play a tournament he probably gets notifications... so it does seem like the software is there but that will still lead to awkward conversations where Mthunt has to decide if a persons response to a rewind is legitimate or a lie.
I know I wouldn’t want that job to call people liars and kick them off the tour of their $1000 software purchase.
I’m for no rewinds even though I do have a few very obvious misreads here and there. It’s just too tempting...

[mthunt]

No one has been kicked out.

[Wizard of Coz]

Sorry aja missed your point. Highlighting rewinds with software doesn't appear to fix anything. Everybody has an excuse for their rewinds. Im sure it could be done but I'm not sure it fixes anything. A tour could be started with mulligans I suppose and software to highlight them. I personally would rather play a tour without them.

What hardware do you play?

Coz

[gene438]

Hey Aja, I hear what you are saying and in a perfect world, I'm sure someone could develop the software.....but I just don't see it happening.

Actually, I'm not sure I agree with you that we ProTee owners are at a disadvantage. I think 1-2 missreads a round is possible, but I'm not sure that is at a disadvantage to the other systems....Seems to me that they are also having 1-2 missreads a round. One could argue that we have a slight advantage, because I really believe putting on the Protee is probably the best of all the systems.....I never have a missread on putts or chipping.......I do get the occasional drive that goes 30 degrees left and it is frustrating but i think I can live with it.


Not the best solution, but I say let's give it a try and see what happens. I am going to start playing the tour full time again and I am going to track my miss-reads to get actual numbers. My primary goal will be to eliminate or improve my system and then i will just have to see if I can live with the number of unavoidable miss-reads.....

[mthunt]

Hello everybody!

Looks like the word "rewind" is a pretty strong trigger. All these replies to my original post and everyone stopped at "rewinds".

Maybe I don't know how to write clearly enough but my post was not an argument, pro or con, about rewinds.

The post was about whether software that reviews tournament scoring and highlights "rewinds", could be developed. That would reduce the amount of work for tournament organizers.

Please reread the post paying attention to the second paragraph and the last line.

The post is about software to catch rewinds!!! Repeat, software to catch rewinds!

Like I said AJA, I have that software now but everyone I contact justifies their rewind. So how do we say one’s reason is ok and his isn’t? We tried it your way for four years. If someone says to me that they know it went more than 150 should I DQ them thus calling them a liar? If someone says they didn’t shank the ball, do I believe them or DQ them? No rewinds, no grey area.

[R3dlineR6]

Well said mthunt...let move on to other things now...the right decision has already been made by Protee and the voters

[jms31207]

Does anyone have a list of common misreads and ways to reduce them? FYI I am on a Skytrack with ample lighting, and I always draw a line with a sharpie around the full circumference of the ball.

My main misreads:

-Short game 100 or 0 rpm spin. This one seems to happen 0-2 times per round. Not sure if it happens more on higher LA or what. If your short game is decent this costs you practically a full shot each time it happens. From checking right at the hole to 35-40+ foot putt.

-Low spin iron shots that sail 30-40 yards over the green. These ones I generally don't rewind, but I play very regularly, am a very solid striker of the ball, and this NEVER happens outdoors. It seems to happen 0-1 times per round.

When is the no rewinds thing going into effect?

I don't totally mind the no rewinds, but it makes gross tournaments more about how faulty your systems are. Net is stupid.

[Trickle007]

I have been playing on a sim for year and never took a rewind. I can't tell you how many times I hit what i thought was a great shot on a real golf course only to see it fall short 20 yards or cut to hard and find a bunker. Just because you think it was a good shot does not mean it was. Just deal with what ever read the golf monitor tells you and move on. Imo it is the only fair way. How is someone sitting behind a computer suppose to determine based off data if it was a misread or not?

[Mike80]

I'm getting ready to start playing in the tournaments. I'm NOT a fan of having people use the Rewind feature. I would not like to play a tournament and be honest and know others are using mulligans when they think they have a misread. Trickle007 is right. Think how many times you hit a good shot on a real golf course and it comes up short, left or right. I had a Skytrak the 1st year of sim golf. I had so many "No Reads" I finally got frustrated and bought a GC2. Best thing I ever did. I've had the GC2 for 2 years now and have never had a misread or never had a no read. Not once! If people are having major problems I would say sell the Skytrak and get a GC2. You won't have any issues any longer. It's that good!

For the tournaments, why do they allow you to boost your clubs 5%. Again I'm not a fan of playing with others in a tournament knowing they are boosting their shots. I know it's only 5% but why do we allow this? I thought the consensus was both the Skytrak and GC2 are accurate. No reason for boosting any shots.

What do you do in the tournaments for putting? That's the only area I see that can have a bad read where you get a big push or pull sometimes. I would only be a fan for increasing accuracy on the putts. What is the tournament rule on putts? Thanks

[colinjm18]

There is a putting patch that allows straight putts as skytrak has issues reading slow putts. So all you have to do is pick correct line and speed.

[Mike80]

Yes, I use the straight putt adjustment with my GC2. This is the only tweak I need. Since putting on sim isn't as good as real life and aiming/alignment can easily be off, I enjoy putting using this adjustment. You can make putts and feels more like real golf. Glad to see the tour allows this.