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This is great but i'm a little worried about my initial game improvement package purchase. I was on of the first orders (pre ordered October of last year) and included the game improvement package. No where was it listed as a subscription and I also had this confirmed through an online chat with a skytrak rep that it was a one time fee. Reading this I don't know what to make of it or why I was sold something under false pretense. I'm a huge skytrak fan but this worries me.
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Miscellaneous comments FWIW:Originally posted by luv2golf View Post
1) You feel Skytrak is undervalued and they could charge double? Using your own numbers that would be getting around $8000. More than the GC2. Do you really think it is as good or even better than the GC2? Maybe you are right, i don't know for sure. But regardless most people think the GC2 is too expensive.
2) You must be older than me...I expect to be playing golf sim for 30 years. So using your numbers that makes it $5000. Getting close to your $6000 GC2.
3) Your $4000 doesn't include any course play. So you think $4000 for a driving range is reasonable? Most wouldn't. If you want course play isn't it minimum $200/year? So that makes it $6000 for your 20 year playing life and you can only play 10 courses.
4) If you'd rather pay $100/year instead of the lump sum equivalent? That is fine, some people prefer to pay a little at a time. That is why subscriptions have their place. Typically one pays more for that service since the vendor is essentially providing a financing service as well. But don't kid yourself about the true cost...if you are OK with that then fine. Others aren't, it remains to be seen if Skytrak is interested in the rest of the market or only those that "buy on time". Until they unveil their TGC packages we don't know if, or how, they intend to address the full market size available to them.
5) In your calculations you are assuming Skytrak keeps the subscription rate constant and inflation neutral. My experience is that once vendors have people hooked on their subscriptions they can't resist the urge to increase the costs faster than inflation...it is too easy to generate more profit without doing anything. Not saying Skytrak will or won't...see you in 20 years to find the answer to that!
Last edited by FaultyClubs; 09-27-2015, 07:45 PM. -
WOW.............You have to much time on your hands to want to argue with me. Good luck.Originally posted by FaultyClubs View Post
Miscellaneous comments FWIW:
1) You feel Skytrak is undervalued and they could charge double? Using your own numbers that would be getting around $8000. More than the GC2. Do you really think it is as good or even better than the GC2? Maybe you are right, i don't know for sure. But regardless most people think the GC2 is too expensive.
2) You must be older than me...I expect to be playing golf sim for 30 years. So using your numbers that makes it $5000. Getting close to your $6000 GC2.
3) Your $4000 doesn't include any course play. So you think $4000 for a driving range is reasonable? Most wouldn't. If you want course play isn't it minimum $200/year? So that makes it $6000 for your 20 year playing life and you can only play 10 courses.
4) If you'd rather pay $100/year instead of the lump sum equivalent? That is fine, some people prefer to pay a little at a time. That is why subscriptions have their place. Typically one pays more for that service since the vendor is essentially providing a financing service as well. But don't kid yourself about the true cost...if you are OK with that then fine. Others aren't, it remains to be seen if Skytrak is interested in the rest of the market or only those that "buy on time". Until they unveil their TGC packages we don't know if, or how, they intend to address the full market size available to them.
5) In your calculations you are assuming Skytrak keeps the subscription rate constant and inflation neutral. My experience is that once vendors have people hooked on their subscriptions they can't resist the urge to increase the costs faster than inflation...it is too easy to generate more profit without doing anything. Not saying Skytrak will or won't...see you in 20 years to find the answer to that!Comment
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Luv2....your latest posts didn't add anything to the discussion. No need to engage in childish behaviour.
I just see the whole subscription thing differently than you is all.Comment
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I have a few questions/thoughts regarding the game improvement package moving forward:
1. Is the game improvement package required for integration with other sim software being released? As stated earlier by Seth there would be some options to subscribe and other to outright purchase. According to protee it was said that pricing is available on their website for TGC but we have to wait for skytraks pricing. If we buy outright Do we have to pay a fee for using the software and device we purchased 100% of? That doesn't seem right.
2. It seems like to play WgT since you cannot buy software, subscribing is the only way to play courses. Subscribing in the short term to is cheaper option than outright purchasing if sim playability is not your main goal. I don't know why GI is required if you just want to play courses. I think there should be just an option to pay for sim playability without GI package.
I'm sure Seth will let us all know so I would just be patient. Monday tomorrow so hopefully some PC integration news and some clarification from skytrak.Comment
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Yes, the game improvement package will be required in order to use any of our sim partners' software. Some are subscription and some are outright. I do see your point there though. Granted, that's not really my area but I will certainly look into it for you at least to get better clarification.
It's kind of confusing, but the game improvement package is essentially what lets the unit "out of it's shell" and to have access to more features, other software partners, and the internet.
Guys, I absolutely love our product and we are always making it better. But with the way technology changes now, let's not be worrying about 30 years down the road. If you think you are going to be playing this SkyTrak unit with the same Sim courses in 30 years, then you probably still have an aol email address
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@jeffy3 , IMHO, for $199 a year (need to pay $99 for GI for any sim) so an extra $99, to me it's a no brainer for someone who wants a bit more than just a driving range.
I spend close to $3K per year on just "green fees" forget about equipment. So what's come out so far in relation to costs is a bargain.
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To be fair, all those features were listed as part of the Game Improvement package as long ago as January this year (when I bought my unit), they're clearly listed that way on my purchase details.
Skytrak haven't 'pulled features out from the base package'; they've just not been restricting the access to them until (apparently) V2.0 for anyone who didn't buy the GI Package, so those buyers have had something free for months that others paid for.
I'm with the other early ​buyers that there was zero indication that this was an annual fee basis, but Seth did promise to take care of the early adopters, so, how about we wait and see whether he's as good as his word ?
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Agree fully on the 30 year argument, I think 5 may well even be a push to be honest, id be amazed if there hasn't been a development in that time.Originally posted by SkyTrak View PostYes, the game improvement package will be required in order to use any of our sim partners' software. Some are subscription and some are outright. I do see your point there though. Granted, that's not really my area but I will certainly look into it for you at least to get better clarification.
It's kind of confusing, but the game improvement package is essentially what lets the unit "out of it's shell" and to have access to more features, other software partners, and the internet.
Guys, I absolutely love our product and we are always making it better. But with the way technology changes now, let's not be worrying about 30 years down the road. If you think you are going to be playing this SkyTrak unit with the same Sim courses in 30 years, then you probably still have an aol email address
So basically if you don't have the GI package you've just got the basic driving range, once you buy the GI package ($99 a year) you will then be able to use whichever Sim option you desire, which currently are proposedly:
WGT at $100 a year
TGC at $995 one off or $479 a year
E6 at $1850 one off
Other than the fact i find Sim software in general hugely overpriced for what it is (TGC console version is $50, is there really $949 worth of extra work in the Sim Version) Im relatively happy with the model. I know this is just the way the industry is and possibly systems such as Skytrak being more affordable may ultimately lead to a larger market and maybe reduced prices long term due to increased competition, but for now they blow e6 out of the water in terms of cost, and so why should it be less I guess. This however is nothing to do with Skytrak.
The GI package is a continual revenue stream fro Skytrak, ideally the basic package should probably have lots of the features that the GI gives you other than the Sim Option Enabling, and perhaps that is something that couldve been considered but it is what it is and think Skytrak will get plenty of $99 a year purchases because of this, which ultimately should ensure they continue to develop and support the product, which can only be good news.
Looking forward to it all being released and seeing how you guys all get on before I pull the trigger in December..
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E6 pricing is not confirmed. E6 cloud might come in at $30/month? Who knows. Then there's also Perfect Golf - pricing not out yet.Originally posted by JohnMeyer View PostComment
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Yeah sorry forgot about Perfect Golf. E6 Cloud could be a fantastic option depending on any limitations and exact requirements. Wish there was more info about PG, as could be a very decent option too. Saw it was beta'd but had some issues, nothing insurmountable I hope. As long as hopefully all the info out there at time of my purchase Ill be happy
At least there's some progress now and to keep on topic, more than understand where ST is coming from with regards the GI, and I hope the early adopters get their yearly subscription reset from the time the GI only restrictions come in, but fully understand the desire for continuing revenue.Comment
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Hi guys , should be a skytrak owner by the end of the week , Once you activate the GI package do you have to be connected to the internet to use the extra features ?
Sim room not ready yet so will mostly be at range with it , didn't know if all the features would work there .
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Don't understand why everybody's so worked up and excited about this PC app release? Do you expect TGC and E6 support to come with it? if yes, why? Was that promised at some point?
We know that the iOS 2.0 app will have WGT support but will only have pretty much the beta version functionality that we have today. The full course play will come much later.
Apart from the accelerometer calibration support all we will get is an iOS app with firmware upgrade capability where the only new major feature is that you can't use all the functions unless you paid for the GI package.
As for the PC app it's a crippled version of the iOS app that does not have the WGT part.
Unless E6 and TGC is released at the same time this looks like more of an update for Skytrak to lock down the unit than something useful for the users.
So before you plug in the new app make sure to back up the v1.9.2 that you have now. You might want it back once you realize what you got:-)
I am definitely turning off my Ipad auto update feature. Want to see what all you guys say before I downgrade my setup to v2.0.Comment
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PC paves the way for our PC-based sim partners. I mentioned before that I'll be making the PC app more PC intuitive/native for full release. The SkyTrak app really has nothing to do with the sim partners, it's the SDK in the background (I only say this because I know you know what I'm talking about). Now that it's baked for iOS and PC, there's nothing we need to change within our app...it's up to the sim partners (and us) to release. Full course play is not as far out as you may think. -
Great, sounds like something worth getting excited about once it is available and terms and conditions are known.
As for the full course play, I was actually referring to WGT. TGC and E6 are ready since a long time ago, so I assume that they will be released as soon as you have sorted out the license management back end. By the feedback received here on the licensing, that could be pretty soon.
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So will the people who have been paying for the GI package that paid for it almost a year ago get a year tacked on??? Really would suck to have paid for nothing for the last nine months and only get three months of use.Comment
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Message SkyTrak_Seth , he'll take care of you..........this has been said many times.
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Is it possible to upgrade to the Game Improvement Package at present?
EDIT: Sorted it out and managed to upgrade.Last edited by HarryG; 09-30-2015, 12:59 PM.Comment
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How did you do that? What do you get extra, other than the sim software access?Originally posted by HarryG View PostComment
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