automatic swing recording and slow motion playback with kinovea

[Reiner]

Regarding the instructions of Kinovea 0.9.1 - setup I would like to make some comments due to the behavior that I found during testing the new version:

1. Options/Preferences/Capture/General
   Setting the „Display framerate (fps)“ will NOT change the video acquisition rate. It exclusively influences the refresh-rate of the display (not the recorded video). This value normally should not be higher than 25. To reduce CPU-load it can set to i.e. 5 or even 1.
   Setting the video acquisition frame rate can only be done clicking the „configure camera“ - wrench-icon (bottom left for left camera) and changing the value in the configuration-menu. The resulting framerate that the camera will deliver can be found on the title of the capture-window under „Signal: XX fps“
2. Options/Preferences/Capture/Memory
   If you allocate ALL available memory to Kinovea, there will be no more memory for the system (all other programs) to work. It may cause a crash of the system. Especially if you are using multiple Kinovea-instances: 1 for recording (it may take ALL memory), 1 for replay (no memory left).
   This memory value is exclusively necessary for the ring-buffer to store the acquired video frames. The necessary value to set here depends on the format and length of video you are recording. To find an adequate value it is the best, to record a video of the desired length using the actual settings and then look on the size of the video plus some „safe“ MB. If the video is i.e. 80MB, a value of 150MB should be far enough. If AVI-files are recorded, 1000MB may be necessary due to the large files that are created. If you use uncompressed files (MKV/AVI), a fast SSD is mandatory.
3. Using the function „open replay folder observer“
   During testing this function, I found that it may be critical to a crash of Kinovea. It is more save to use 1 Kinovea with 1 Playback screen for EACH video that is created. Using this configuration, the system works very stable.
4. Furthermore, I found that using 1 Kinovea for 1 recording camera is better than using 2 cameras inside 1 Kinovea. The noise-trigger can be used on multiple Kinovea at the same time, so it is possible to create the trigger on multiple Kinovea that starts at the same moment. Testing has shown a delay between 2 Kinovea of only some milliseconds.
   The reason it it more stable may be that the new version uses separate „threads“ on each function that can be distributed to separate cores of the CPU, working independently at the same time.
5. There is a new function in Kinovea that helps to differentiate each running instance. If Kinovea is called using command line parameters, a specified environment can be used.
   The format is: path…\kinovea.exe -name CONFIGNAME
   If kinovea starts using this command-line, it will use the configuration of CONFIGNAME
   If Kinovea is recalled later using this command, it will reload the same configuration (Camera settings and ALL Options).
   
   An options to load 2 Kinovea Instances using 1 Camera each and 2 Kinovea instances using „replay folders“ each would be to load the following sequence:
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Cam1
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Cam2
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Replay1
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Replay2
   You could create 4 Links on the desktop to achieve this. After calling each, select the appropriate camera to Cam1 and Cam2 and select the replay folders to Replay1 and Replay2. In the Kinovea-Title, you could see the related setting in brackets after „Kinovea“.
   
   More advanced you could add the command-line option -workspace WORKSPACE
   for the Kinovea-instances doing the replay. Then, the replay function is recalled directly after startup. However, I haven’t tested it so far

[Jdborg]

Thanks stell123 for the advise. Would the new kinovea be ok for the non tech savy or is the advise still to go third party? I also found a thread that was using obs with voice attack. Would one be easier for me or would I need to know computers well to make either work? Thanks

[wzjy47]

Hi Jdborg, I'm familiar with computers, but by no means an expert or on the level of a lot of the guys on this forum and I found that the newest version of Kinovea to be the best option. I've been using it for a couple of weeks without any issues. If you go back to post 104, I put together the steps I initially used to set it up. Please also read post 106 from Reiner. He has some additional recommendations on some of the settings. The only thing I haven't figured out yet, is how to get Kinovea to remember the settings so you don't have to set it up each time you open it. Reiner had a suggestion on how to do that on in post 106, step 5 but I haven't gotten it work yet. Another benefit of Kinovea is that it has the audio trigger built in now, so you don't have to buy Voice Attack...Good luck!

[wzjy47]

Regarding the instructions of Kinovea 0.9.1 - setup I would like to make some comments due to the behavior that I found during testing the new version:

1. Options/Preferences/Capture/General
   Setting the „Display framerate (fps)“ will NOT change the video acquisition rate. It exclusively influences the refresh-rate of the display (not the recorded video). This value normally should not be higher than 25. To reduce CPU-load it can set to i.e. 5 or even 1.
   Setting the video acquisition frame rate can only be done clicking the „configure camera“ - wrench-icon (bottom left for left camera) and changing the value in the configuration-menu. The resulting framerate that the camera will deliver can be found on the title of the capture-window under „Signal: XX fps“
2. Options/Preferences/Capture/Memory
   If you allocate ALL available memory to Kinovea, there will be no more memory for the system (all other programs) to work. It may cause a crash of the system. Especially if you are using multiple Kinovea-instances: 1 for recording (it may take ALL memory), 1 for replay (no memory left).
   This memory value is exclusively necessary for the ring-buffer to store the acquired video frames. The necessary value to set here depends on the format and length of video you are recording. To find an adequate value it is the best, to record a video of the desired length using the actual settings and then look on the size of the video plus some „safe“ MB. If the video is i.e. 80MB, a value of 150MB should be far enough. If AVI-files are recorded, 1000MB may be necessary due to the large files that are created. If you use uncompressed files (MKV/AVI), a fast SSD is mandatory.
3. Using the function „open replay folder observer“
   During testing this function, I found that it may be critical to a crash of Kinovea. It is more save to use 1 Kinovea with 1 Playback screen for EACH video that is created. Using this configuration, the system works very stable.
4. Furthermore, I found that using 1 Kinovea for 1 recording camera is better than using 2 cameras inside 1 Kinovea. The noise-trigger can be used on multiple Kinovea at the same time, so it is possible to create the trigger on multiple Kinovea that starts at the same moment. Testing has shown a delay between 2 Kinovea of only some milliseconds.
   The reason it it more stable may be that the new version uses separate „threads“ on each function that can be distributed to separate cores of the CPU, working independently at the same time.
5. There is a new function in Kinovea that helps to differentiate each running instance. If Kinovea is called using command line parameters, a specified environment can be used.
   The format is: path…\kinovea.exe -name CONFIGNAME
   If kinovea starts using this command-line, it will use the configuration of CONFIGNAME
   If Kinovea is recalled later using this command, it will reload the same configuration (Camera settings and ALL Options).
   
   An options to load 2 Kinovea Instances using 1 Camera each and 2 Kinovea instances using „replay folders“ each would be to load the following sequence:
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Cam1
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Cam2
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Replay1
   ...\Kinovea.exe -name Replay2
   You could create 4 Links on the desktop to achieve this. After calling each, select the appropriate camera to Cam1 and Cam2 and select the replay folders to Replay1 and Replay2. In the Kinovea-Title, you could see the related setting in brackets after „Kinovea“.
   
   More advanced you could add the command-line option -workspace WORKSPACE
   for the Kinovea-instances doing the replay. Then, the replay function is recalled directly after startup. However, I haven’t tested it so far

Hi Reiner, Thanks for the feedback! When I get a chance, I'll update the setup instructions...I tried the settings above and didn't have any issues. I didn't have any issues with what was in the setup instructions either for what its worth...I was not able to get step 5 to work (I'm guessing its my lack of understanding with respect to command line parameters), but could you possibly go into a little more detail? Here's what I did:

-Created 4 copies of the Kinovea.exe file (kinovea.exe - Cam1, kinovea.ex. - Cam2...)
-Created a shortcut on my desktop for each individual .exe file above

When I go to open these instance again, they all startup from the beginning. They do not appear to be saving the settings (please see attached screen shots).

Another question I do have with regards to this setup working on recalling the previous settings…With the file naming used, it appears to create a new folder every day, so how will the Replay Manager know to go to the next days folder or will that have to be changed every day? Do I just need to change the Sub Directory path?
Thanks again for your help!

[joan]

To pass command line arguments from the shortcut you need to right click the shortcut, go to Properties and edit the "Target" field.
You will use the -name argument, so you need to add -name <NAME> at the end fo the target. Replace <NAME> with what you want but keep the "-name" flag in there.

The workspace feature (to reload the screens state when running the instance) is a work in progress and just started, so at the moment it's very limited. It only works with playback screens, not cameras, and it doesn't support dynamic paths, so you won't be able to make it automatically point to the recording folder day after day.

[jc523]

i've been able to recall the preferences for each of my instances using the '-name' parameter, but i haven't had any success with the '-workspace' option.

joan, does the XML file specified after the -workspace flag get created automatically, or do I have to create it beforehand? if so, can you provide an example XML?

thanks!

[Reiner]

Hi,
Joan was faster
However, you can find a more detailed instruction here that may help.

using command line-parameters means, that you ALWAYS use the SAME Kinovea.exe but parse some information to the program.
Do NOT create a new exe file. It is always the same EXE-file.

Let's say your username is MILLER and Kinovea is installed in the Directory KINOVEA under your User-Account.
Open Filemanager and navigate to your Kinovea.exe - file.
Start navigating on c:\users...
(eventually you have to tell your Filemanager in options to show all "hidden" files to find the directory)

(by the way it makes things much easier if you have a separate drive letter, i.e. d:, and install Kinovea from the ZIP-File in
d:\Kinovea, store your videos in d:\swing_videos1, d:\swing_videos2 etc.. If you have only one drive letter installed on your system,
you might also use c:\Kinovea etc.)


if Kinovea is installed under you username the path to Kinovea might be like this:
c:\users\Miller\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe

to create a LINK on the Desktop to that Kinovea.exe you can:

Press ALT and Drag/Drop the kinovea.exe file to the desktop.
A Link will be created on the desktop.
Rename the link to i.e. Kinovea MASTER.

Right click on this link and select properties.
in the Target-Field you will find the Kinovea.exe file including the path.
(for example c:\users\Miller\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe)

Click in this field and go to the right end using the cursor.
Append a space char and type -name Master
Be shure that there is NO " (quotation mark) somewhere !!
It the target field it should look like this:
c:\users\Miller\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe -name Master

Save the changes.

If you now click this Link, Kinovea will start up and shows:
Kinovea [Master]
in the title bar.

Select i.e. "one capture screen"
Drag/Drop a camera to the record window
Do some settings in Options/Preferences (i.e. Video directory, videoname etc.)
Close Kinovea

Recall it using the link you have created and you will see that all Options you have set at first call are still there.
It also stores the last settings of the camera you selected, but does NOT store the assignment of a specific camera to a record panel.

Repeat the LINK procedure for every instance of Kinovea you would like to create, giving different name.

The "Master" above only is an example.
Every Name can be used instead of MASTER (i.e. CAM1 or CAM2 etc.), but I would use allowed literals that can be used in filenames (a-z,A-Z,_) but no spaces.
Also do NOT Use [,],-,.,{,},%,&,$,",! (maybe not a complete list).

[wzjy47]

Thanks! Unfortunately, I still couldn't get it to work...When I try to remove the "" around the path int he Target field (Properties of the shortcut created), it give me an error "The name "C:\Program Files\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe -name CAM1 specified in the target box is not valid...".When I add the "" back around the path ("C:\Program Files\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe" -name CAM1), it lets me save it and then when I open Kinovea using the link, I see Kinovea [CAM1] in the upper left corner of the screen. I tried to create 1 capture instance, changed the settings, closed the program and when I reopened it, none of the settings were saved. The "Kinovea [CAM1]" was still in the upper left corner, but everything else was back to the default settings. I tried to create a 3rd shortcut, as a playback instance. It didn't save its settings either. I named it REPLAY1, but the upper left corner said "Kinovea [3]"...I'm not sure where that came from...Thanks again for your help on this!

[Dax McBurney]

Hi everyone - This thread is amazing and i'm so close to having it all setup thanks to all your efforts.

I'm having problems with the '-name' parameter

I'm following the instructions but having similiar issues to wzjy47. In the target field before changing anything, i see "C:\Program Files\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe.config"

I adjust to read as follows C:\Program Files\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe -name CAM1 but i get the same error as wzjy47 was getting. I also can get it to save by adding back in the "" as follows "C:\Program Files\Kinovea\Kinovea.exe" -name CAM1 but then none of the settings are saving?

Anything else i can try??

[joan]

Dax McBurney, if you see "Kinovea.exe.config" in the target field, it means you are creating a shortcut on the wrong file. Maybe you have your Windows configured to hide known extensions, in which case there should be a file named just "Kinovea", and this is the one you should create a shortcut to.

The file you want to create the shortcut to is the one with the green icon.

[Reiner]

Regarding your question .pdf

To my taste I leave the "Sub Directory" field empty. It may be easier to find your videos.
Fortunately, Kinovea numbers each new video file that is created.
If you use the namespace function as described, Kinovea will store the last video-filename, so there is only small danger of having filename conflicts.

[mikepatterson0172]

Hi Inorkuo,
First, thanks for all the posts you do on here. Was invaluable in getting my setup to where it is now!

I've found your two camera instructions and downloads but I only have 1 camera behind - do you have a separate download for this?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[inorkuo]

use the latest beta version of kinovea. it has everything built in. my script is obsolete now.

[Waheeden]

Not sure what I will do with my AutoIt skills anymore!

[Waheeden]

Here's a OV2710 and OV4689 comparison that I have been meaning to post for a while:

https://youtu.be/1OFAEtGBfSI

OV2710 (170deg lens 640x480 120fps) vs OV4689 (180deg lens 1280x720 120fps - running fixed frame rate firmware)

Cameras are about 5ft from the ball. The 180deg lens is only necessary with the long shaft of the driver. For 3W and shorter clubs, the 170deg lens can capture the full swing.
Each camera records in its own instance of Kinovea 9.1. Both cameras deliver a true frame rate of 99fps (as verified with the running clock in the foreground, and the frame counter in the replay window: 247 frames / 2.5 seconds = 99fps).

A third instance of Kinovea with two Replay Folder Observers is used for automatic replay.

[chicub15]

Disregard- I found both the 2710 and 4689 with 170deg lens after some additional digging. Thanks!

[DejaVu]

Anyone and espec inorkuo

Thanks for your comparison ^^^ Waheeden

Is there a way to use a lengthy tethered micro-mic of some kind (or wireless mic?) set next to the ball to start swing recording vs. picking up background noise from the pc/cam mic? Way too much background noise here.

Could the ProTee sensor mat's mic somehow be incorporated to be used as the mic to launch Kinovea recording?

Thanks in advance.

[Waheeden]

I use the mic on an old USB Logitech webcam. I set it next to the Face On camera.

The mic on the laptop does pick up too much background noise.

[DejaVu]

Thanks Waheeden My cams (2710's) should be in on Friday. Looking forward to getting them up and running, but with eyes squinting at it all if that makes any sense.

[NovaGolfer]

Hi all, I have my setup working per instructions and I can select my OV2710 cameras at 640x480 120fps. The issue is that when I record my iPhone stop watch (which shows 100ths of a second) I seem to actually be recording at 30fps or so (the 100ths numbers skip anywhere from .02 to .05 each frame). AM I missing a setting? Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

[Reiner]

Hi, it is a behavior of your iPhone. The display-refresh rate of the iPhone is below 100fps, so the recorded video doesn't show you the real fps-value. A better way to get the real fps-rate, record a video of a given time duration, i.e. 2 seconds. Set the Options to show you the number of recorded frames (see attachment). If you will find about 200 frames, the recording frame rate should be correct.
Which version of Kinovea you are using?

[NovaGolfer]

Hi, it is a behavior of your iPhone. The display-refresh rate of the iPhone is below 100fps, so the recorded video doesn't show you the real fps-value. A better way to get the real fps-rate, record a video of a given time duration, i.e. 2 seconds. Set the Options to show you the number of recorded frames (see attachment). If you will find about 200 frames, the recording frame rate should be correct.
Which version of Kinovea you are using?

Thanks for taking the time to respond! I followed your suggestions and I am indeed getting about 100 fps. I also did the math and it seems like a club moving 70mph will move about 1 foot in 1/100 of a second. So I guess the blur I am seeing at impact is correct it is just that these cameras cannot "freeze" the motion at these speeds.

Which leads me to a follow up: Does anyone have a camera suggestion for this Kinova setup which will enable a better freezing of motion? I'd really like to be able to see my downswing a little clearer if possible.

And thanks again to Inorkuo for putting all of this together!

[pathfindr]

To freeze the swing with no motion blur, use higher shutter speed. In Kinova, change the Exposure time for the camera to as short as possible. (Shorter exposure forces the camera to use faster shutter speed) I find that with OV2710 cameras, I have to increase the Gain and need to have a lot of light so that the video is not too dark. Unfortunately, I couldn't quite freeze the club when using the OV cameras. I heard that the black and white version seems to be able to handle low light better than the color version. I ended up using a GoPro Hero 7 Black to record my swing. (Not integrated with Kinova). With the Hero 7, I can manually change the shutter speed to 1/1920 second at 240 pfs at 720 and can freeze the club with no motion blur. I also added a 45kLM LED light. The light has a constant current driver and won't cause flickering when recording at high speed. This is the light I use. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XG37F14

[StodgyBarley]

Hi Gang! Great info here! I just upgraded to the beta of Kinovea and I can't click on the wrench to configure the camera settings so I have no video at all. Everything was working fine with the stable release but I wanted to try the audio trigger. Am I missing something silly here? I have a PS3 eye camera and an OV2710. Thanks in advance!!!

[joan]

The way to select and open cameras has changed. There is a camera tab in the explorer, at the left of the screens (View > File explorer in case it's hidden). This should list the available cameras and you can double click or drag and drop from there.

[StodgyBarley]

Thanks so much Joan! I'll check that out! Appreciate it!

[bs531]

I have been following this thread for a while now and am finally ready to order cameras. It seems like most people are using the OV2710 which I think is at least several years old. Are there any better cameras for swing capture in $100 price range?

[inorkuo]

Kayeton black and white global shutter 120fps usb camera on amazon or eBay.

[StodgyBarley]

Thanks Inorkuo! Sounds like black and white is better for picking up the swing then?? I'm also interested in some new cameras.

[Reiner]

I’m using the OV2710 at 640x480, 100 fps and
the following Kayeton GLOBAL shutter camera at constant 1280 x 720p, 120fps:

https://www.amazon.com/Global-Shutter-Driverless-Android-Windows/dp/B07GVDWB6R

It also works under lighting of about 60-80 Watt (LED).

Of course, both cameras show significant amount of blurring. I didn’t find a way to control the shutter speed.
To get a real crisp image, you definitely need an IDS/Basler or equivalent AND a lot of flicker free lighting when going down to 500 or 200 microsecond shutter speed.

[Reiner]

Question to post

https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/build-your-own/computer-systems/136645-automatic-swing-recording-and-slow-motion-playback-with-kinovea?p=253964#post253964

#116.1 pathfindr

The LED light you mentioned has a very low price compared to the power. It sounds very interesting. Are you sure that it is driven by constant current? Looking at the specificiation there is nothing written. Also the flicker-index is not mentioned. Do you have an example-video using this light at 240fps without using additional daylight?
Thanks

[pathfindr]

Sorry, I just saw this post now, 9 months later. The light works great without any flickering even at 240fps. It has a Simon Constant Current LED Driver and it's actually UL listed. (E483872). I posted a sample video on youtube with more details on the lights and my setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDazmplL2YY

[StodgyBarley]

Hi everyone! I have my 2710 camera working well in the beta version of Kinovea but I can no longer see my PS3 camera. I know the camera is working due to other software picking it up. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!!

[joan]

If you are using the CL PS3 Eye Driver from CodeLaboratories, it only works with 32-bit applications. Try with this driver instead: https://github.com/jkevin/PS3EyeDirectShow/releases

[StodgyBarley]

Thanks again Joan! That worked perfectly! Appreciate it!