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I contacted ES16 and got the unit re-calibrated. So, we'll see what transpires from here. They also suggested using a different golf ball. I was using the Kirkland Signature last night. Will try something different the next go around. Maybe a Vice ball. It has a nice big logo. -
I use the Vice with the black line facing the unit and this works very well. The logo has too many curves and can cause some unusual readings.Comment
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Got the unit recalibrated, and that DEFINITELY helped with issues I was having. Does anyone find the distances to be a little on the long side? I would consider my 8-iron to be 145-155 club and I was getting 155-165. I don't think I hit a drive under 286 and even put one out over 320. I've made some recent swing changes, so it's hard to tell if these numbers are the results of these swing changes. I am striking the ball much better, and I am certainly capable of putting drives out that far, but I've never done it on a consistent basis. I don't know that I have ever gone 320 without a wind at my back. I had one that was over 330 the other day IRL but I had a 25 mph-ish wind behind me.
I really think like everyone else that this has real possibilities, especially if they can get some features that SkyTrak has out.
I put my voice caddy 2 down on four 8 iron shots. Got mixed results. I had two shots that registered 135ish on vc2 and 155ish on ES16, but then I had two shots that were 145ish and within four yards of each other. Those were carry distances.
Don't really question the flight path on the driver as I have really been struggling with the pulls. Irons have been the same, but showed more slices on ES16, which I have not been doing IRL, however I was not hitting the same irons inside I have been hitting outdoors. I play iblades outside and I was hitting Cobra Fly Z pro 8 iron inside. Played JNPG via SkyTrak this afternoon and did not show any fades or slices with my irons at all with the Fly Z Pros.
At this point I'm mixed about whether I'm happy I made the purchase.
The ball placement is still not where it needs to be for a commercial use. I can see people getting fairly annoyed with "guessing" where the ball goes and having to get a logo facing the camera. For me it was a little annoying having used the SkyTrak and having the red dot pretty much show you where the ball goes. Although I think the GC2 doesn't have a light and is somewhat of a guess, so . . .
Bottom line is it is mine. They won't take them back :-). I did actually try, because my son is having some medical issues and I REALLY didn't need to have this expense right now. Had 3 MRIs and 2 CAT scans yesterday and possibly has to have back surgery, although I don't think he's going to have to, but even with insurance the MRIs and CAT scans take their toll on the pocketbook. So I will continue to look forward to updates. And I would certainly love to be able to give feedback to ES16 on ways to improve.
I'd love to hear some comments from folks that have tried to "play" sim golf on their ES16.Comment
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Firstly, sorry to hear about your son. Hopefully he doesn't have to have the surgery... that's concerning stuff to say the least.
Secondly, I am noticing a lot of what you said as well. I've owned mine for about 5 months now and I don't feel like it's caught up to the Skytrak yet in many regards.
I played FW 1.46 without recalibrating and noticed an improvement in this firmware. I then recalibrated and I noticed the ball appeared faster on the screen interestingly enough for both putts and irons/drivers. It still loses the odd little chip though.
Irons: Seems pretty good to my skytrak and real life. Distances are better here than skytrak for me. I had to use the boost in Skytrak/TGC to get them close to real life whereas no need to do in ES16 (Don't even think it's able to actually).
Driver: I was hitting lots of draws (and sometimes even hooks) on the skytrak (intentionally as I fight the slice) but find it almost impossible to do on the ES16. I do find my distances better though with my driver (and irons too) though as the skytrak was often short. I am finding the mat I used has played into this noticeably though.
Ball Recognition: It's pretty good for the irons and I've seen improvement here; however, putting it on a tee (Dark Grey) is a lengthy process for the recognition ... still get 1 out of 2 no reads and the odd misread as well.
Putter: It will recognize the ball, I address the ball for the put, and then the green light disappears.
Wedges: I find the backspin is measured way more than on the skytrak... lots of my chips are checking now whereas that never happened on the skytrak; however, I think there was a software setting I had on that might have influenced this.
Ball Flight Misread: I'm a lefty and sometimes my shots take off WAY left after the ball hits the center of my screen. I've read about others having this happen WAY RIGHT though as well. I don't seem to get a miss WAY right... just left. Mainly with shots from under 75 yards but it does happen with some longer irons too. I can't even play TGC tournaments right now due to this happening too frequently. I start and then give up.
Bottom line: I'm thinking I'm going to put the TGC license back to the Skytrak these days. It's probably going to cost me but I'm at a point where I can't really enjoy a round and it's damaging my game. I've spent a lot of time messing around with mats, calibrating, sending it in to get looked at... it's definitely been a way more frustrating experience than the Skytrak. I know the ES16 has a bigger upside but my patience is getting thin.
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They dont take it back? Even within a time frame? That's crazy!Originally posted by MainStGolf View Post
The gc2 does have the screen that you can see exactly where the ball is in its camera view before each shot and you then know to move the ball anywhere within that rectangle its is displaying, the light then turns green on the machine (from red) and you a good to hit.
Hope they do get it working to your liking, that logo line up thing was the biggest deterrent from me considering one of these. They have made great stride it sounds though on other parts. But lining up a ball every time just feel like something I should have to do after speeding 5 thousand dollar on it.Comment
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Lefty:
I could also have written much of what you wrote. I am a right handed player and see shots hit the approximate center of the screen and the unit/software showing the shot going over 10 degrees to the right.
So I take it you have sent your unit into Ernest Sports for repair/calibration or whatever they do to fix it and you are still seeing less than satisfactory results? That is, shots that are way off and inability to finish a round due to misreads? My unit is back at Ernest Sports now, and I was anticipating much better results when I got it back. Your experience suggests that may not be the case. I would hate to think this is just the way the unit works for now.
I have also asked about a return, I had a new unit less than 30 days before asking, and they indicated they did not entertain returns because they have always been able to get the unit functioning to the customers satisfaction. That does not sound like the case for you, would that be right?
Ironstrokes:
I don't find lining up the logo that big of a deal if it then worked most of the time. I find suggesting that one should only use certain balls unreasonable. Their videos show several types of balls in use.
MainStGolf:
I also had shots that carried farther than I can actually hit on in real life. The main issue I have with it is one cannot play a round due to the various misreads, so it ends up I can't use the TGC software I purchased.
With a properly setup sensor, mat and screen and a high speed camera, one can get a very good idea how accurate a launch monitor is. One can get launch angle, launch direction and even reasonable ball speeds. When making these measurement with the ES 16, I found the widest variations were with launch direction and ball speed.
Hopefully I will get my unit back, it will function well and I can go on with life and golf.
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All launch monitors struggle with horizontal direction. Has the HA accuracy been published? The GC2 is +/- 1 degree. The ST is +/- 2 degrees. The LM has a very short time to capture the ball. During that time it has to measure the size of the ball at the start and at the finish. The ball getting bigger or smaller determines path. If the ES16 can do an accurate job measuring club face and path, they would be better off calculating the direction based on path and face angle. I have a PX5 system that has a Hcam. I once played a round with my Hcam disabled to see how accurate HA calculations were. I had to double check that it was truly disabled. Every shot went where I felt it should go. If path and face are accurate, ball path can be calculated with reasonable accuracy.
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My driver was completely accurate. Most all of my shots were dead left pulls and that is "my" shot right now. I was able to get a few to straighten out, one of which went the 320 yards. I did get most of the irons shots to read as dead left pulls as well, which has been accurate lately. However I did have a couple that were dramatic fades to the right. I wouldn't say slices, but more than a "baby fade" which with the type of irons I was hitting and hitting off a CCE mat is not out of the question. I will say that the ES16 has been helpful already though because it has shown me that my attack angle is not nearly what it should be, but in the same respect I could have gotten that information with my $150 M-Tracer if I would attach that to my club. Again, I did purchase it because of the lower price and the upside that it has. I have plenty of time to be patient as I have no desire to get rid of my SkyTrak and the strides that machine as had and the gaming programmers working with us SkyTrak owners has been happy enough.
PS - I did get a driver to miss WAY right once, but it was a swing I was totally expecting to see that ball flight.
PSS - I played with a TaylorMade TP5 ball this morning and had zero issues with my wedge I was working on. So, I guess I will give the Kirklands another go although their logo is not quite as bold and dark.Comment
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I suppose like most of you I want these folks to be successful. My results so far have been less then I had hoped for. It seems to me the unit has great potential and it sound like most of you agree. I am not as patient as some of you. This unit is not inexpensive, so I think its appropriate for us to expect reasonable accuracy now and not have to wait.Comment
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Ok I'm ready to buy a launch monitor
so I get the ES 16 or the Flightscope xi tour??
need to decide by the emd of the weekend!!Comment
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I will be using it mostly indoors. I have the room to set up the flightscope in the space I have.
i was seriously looking at the ES16 however there are so many negative comments regarding it and it all seems to be about being patient and it will be ok in the future!Comment
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I haven't used an ES16 but I get the same feeling as you about needing to be patient and wait for updates. It seems to be moving in the right direction at a reasonably fast pace (at least by golf simulator hardware standards). One other thing to consider is if you want to use it just as a driving range or to play courses. ES16 integrates with TGC and JNPG which have a pretty large user base and online tournaments. Both give you lots of courses, with TGC giving you more. Flightscope only works with E6 I believe. E6 costs almost twice as much as TGC and only gives you 15 courses, then you buy course packs for around $400 for 12 courses. If you want to play lots of courses, it can get expensive. But lots of people really like E6. I don't know how Flightscope handles putting for sim golf.
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If you want sim golf the ES16 is a must if those are your two choices. If I was purchasing "right now" and wanted sim and the benefits of other practice type of features and $$$ was a consideration I would go with SkyTrak. I have the ES16 and the SkyTrak. I have the ability to be patient for ES16 to get to where I hope they are wanting to go.Comment
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Yes I want to hit into a screen and see my ball flight on the screen, so I want sim golf. Primarily I want to use it as an improvement tool showing both ball and club data so skytrack dosent fit the bill. The data should be actuate ( meaning the launch monitor is doing what the manufacturers are advertising it does), so at the moment ES 16 dosent fit the bill , but might in the future if I'm "patient and the nice guys at ES achieve what their trying to achieve "Originally posted by MainStGolf View Post
I just can't help thinking $8000 AU is a lot of money to spend on something that might work.
Playing simulated golf on courses is for me, an added bonus and not the main reason for setting up my simulator, as I play competition golf here 52 weeks a year. The flightscope xi tour does not support putting but I don't need to simulate putting as I can set up a little putting area next to the sim.Comment
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Steve:
I sent my unit in recently to have Ernest Sports take a look at it. They indicated that one of the cameras needed readjusting and the unit was tested and approved by their pros. Since I got it back, I had to re-calibration due to some rough treatment during shipping, it seems to be producing far more reasonable results. I've hit a few shots and they seem to be going in the general direction I would have predicted, with a couple of exceptions. I have not been able to take data to confirm my thoughts, but will be able to next week.Comment
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Thanks Stonebattle, I'd be interested in hearing your resultsOriginally posted by Stonebattle View Post
im procrastinating big time now! I really fancied the ES16 but am leaning towards the XI tour. Wish I could afford the x3 or the foresight quad but the wife would go off her trolley ha ha ha
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Steve, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but based on what you are saying I think ES16 would be a better route, although I can not say anything about putting. I will say if you want both ball and club an option is SkyTrak and then an M-Tracer from Epson. And you are getting both for under $2500. I believe SkyTrak also has a unit that you can put on your club to get ball data, but it's just not tied in with the launch monitor. There has been talks that the integration may be coming??? But from just a practice standpoint of seeing what my ball is doing on a screen ES16 is completely ready for that no doubt - at least from my brief experience.Comment
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I finally had a bit more success last night... finished 9 holes!
#1) I used a different tee for my driver.. I used a real black tee with my black tee holder so I had next to no misreads with my driver. That in itself made a big difference. I was using a dark grey rubber tee before. I had the odd no spin show up but I just re-hit as it wasn't tournament play.
#2). The putter is still a bit of an issue but I was a bit more patient with it. When it's in putter mode, the light turns green, then back to red, then green again. I address the ball and it turns red again and finally settles down. I know the distance is off some of the time with my putts but nothing too bad (ie a 6 foot putt in real life reads 12-14 on ES). The long putts seem great.
#3) Irons have been good the entire time beside the odd fat shot not reading spin but I didn't notice that in my 9 holes of play.
#4) I still find the horizontal azimuth off a bit.. I did have a bunch of shots that hit the middle of my screen start WAY outside. This might be my biggest issue now.
Is anyone else noticing the ES16 in putter mode bounce back and forth between red and green light? I'm curious as to how many people are having horizontal azimuth issues?Comment
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