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**JohnnyBill** · 03-29-2018, 05:26 PM

I assure you I am in no way affiliated in with Trugolf in the way that you are implying. Just because someone has an opposing view you automatically assume that I'm some sort of made up guy working for Trugolf? That's just absurd. I am an actual Trugolf paying customer & that is all. I joined the forum to see what others were saying about the E6 Connect update & to offer to other people the information that I have learned. Why is that so hard to understand? My opinions are just that. My own opinions. Black Marketing...yeah I'm sure Trugolf has the time to join a forum and make posts. Any other brilliant conspiracy theories you would like to explore?

All am saying is I think Trugolf has the right to charge me for an upgrade. I don't understand how anyone thinks it should be free.

**LEO MODE** · 03-29-2018, 05:39 PM

Oh trust me, go dig up my numerous posts, and never once I ever said someone works for a company. Your statement is getting bolder and bolder not to mention you directed that message towards me. It was just getting fishy so I just wanted to let you know that you need to balance things out. As I said if you don’t work for them and prove that you don’t, then more power to you. Go post more stuff rather than advocating about how good and great e6 software is and that you don’t understand some people in this forum. Those people have every rights to say how they feel and you can’t point out to them and say you don’t understand them. I actually don’t understand why you are so offended when I said things about Trugolf? I just think this just worsens Trugolf image to be honest.

And yes, there are many companies out there who make or use fake names and post things online. I’ve seen them too much.

Lastly, nobody said the upgrade should be free. I never said I need a free upgrade. Paying $1800 for an upgrade is absurd. It doesn’t give you $1800 more worth of software advantage. Comparing to other software however, paying $900 is a competitive pricing in my opinion and possibly could win other competitors by selling more software. Simple as that. It is either full upfront or a subscription model. Be realistic. Let the consumer choose if they would want to continue the subscription. No game software out there charges both the upfront and subscription, let alone the subscription price being $300/yr. I know there are at least 10 people in this forum wanting to buy e6 connect but not due to this greedy, not forward-thinking price.

**JohnnyBill** · 03-29-2018, 06:33 PM

I was responding to this post from you:

LEO MODE commented
03-27-2018, 05:09 PM

"$1200 upgrade fee, a big laugh at that. And you even have all courses lmao. They need to give you free 2yr subscription, not $600/yr for 2 years lol."

You were saying that he should get a free 2 year subscription. I disagree. $50 a month for 2 years & free software upgrade is acceptable to me. That's just me as an existing customer.

Not sure how you want me to prove that I'm just a regular guy sitting in western Pa. You say you never once said someone works for a company but you were certainly insinuating that I am some how in league with Trugolf. Just not true.

As far as new customers I can see where paying for both software & subscription is not cool if that is your main issue I will agree.

I'm just saying for existing Trugolf customers you can upgrade to the new software for free buy agreeing to 2-3 year subscription at $50 a month. I'm O.K. with that. Me. Personally. My very own non funded opinion.

I'm not sure what you would consider fair for existing customers. It's hard to quantify. If you just bought the 1.6 upgrade a year ago & just paid $1500 I can see where you may feel that you are not getting a fair deal. I paid $1350 3 years ago for E6 1.6 so I feel as though I got my money's worth over 3 years & now for the upgrade I will essentially pay less than I did for E6 1.6. I got 3 years of use out of E6 1.6.

Are you saying they should take when you bought the E6 1.6 into consideration if you want to upgrade? Like if you just bought E6 1.6 six months ago then asking $50 a month for E6 connect would be too much. Maybe ask $25 a month for those people. If you bought E6 1.6 two years ago then ask $37.50.

Then again it's tough to do that. I don't know of too many software companies that take into account when you bought the software what the price will be if you want to upgrade.

I can only say that in my own personal situation that I feel as though the deal works well for me.

**LEO MODE** · 03-29-2018, 09:42 PM

Johnnybill, are you saying that even users who paid $6000 should pay for an upgrade cost AND subscription fees in the future? It doesn't matter if he's paying '$1200 for the upgrade' or '$1200 for 2 yr subscription with a free upgrade'. They literally mean the same thing with just wording them differently. Why? Because e6 won't have any full contents available NOW or let alone in 2 full years from now! Do you get what I'm trying to say here? That is an upgrade fee at this moment, and he will have to pay extra subscription fees on top of that. So, yes upgrade is not free because he will have to shell out extra cash for the first 2 years of inadequate contents.

Secondly, how much should the upgrade fee be? Just like what you said, the upgrade cost shouldn't be weighed depending on when you bought the system. It can't work like that. What I was saying the whole time was the price for loyal users must be fair. Compared to other products, by putting the price point at $900 (3yr $300 subscription) was good and understandable in my opinion. They won't have anything available fully in first 1-2 years anyway, so by giving old users an option to subscribe after that will be a good idea to make the loyal users satisfied and happy. At the same time, trugolf can leverage those funds to put them more into quicker development of the contents and recoup some of the R&D costs. I am sure some people even might disagree with my $900 idea, as there are software that are cheaper and better anyway.

Lastly, you keep emphasizing $50/month. It's $50/month if you play every single month. Not everyone in this forum plays every month because they'll rather go out and play the real courses when the weather is good like in the east coast. If a player plays 6 months in a year, it is $100/month. I wish you stop emphasizing only on your view and e6's view and not other users' views. Nothing personal to you at all, I just think you need to flip the coin and try to understand why there are others who think differently. As a business major, I can see so many better alternative ways than this to make both the company and the customers happy. This industry is so volatile and one simple mistake on their financial strategy can definitely lead to bankruptcy. I love their product and their customer support, but their pricing strategy and sales tactics is really old and outdated.

**Jwheels9876** · 03-29-2018, 10:52 PM

600 a year is a bit steep considering most of the subscription models run around 250 for the skytrak. If they expect to get any new customers to pay $2500 plus another 600 a year to buy in then they're simply delusional. They need a complete overhaul of their pricing model to compete with JNPG and TGC. The other software's aren't on the same level so I won't even include them.

I already own TGC and subscribe to the yearly JNPG for $250 and I'd gladly pay another $250 a year for e6 connect if it delivers what it says it will with the updated graphics and stuff. 500 a year for quality software to play is well worth it for me as I play year round regardless of weather.

I'm paying roughly $20 a month to play JNPG and it already offers me everything E6 connect is touting for $50 a month plus a 2500 fee lol.

**Dax** · 03-29-2018, 10:54 PM

I’d have to say I’m siding with Leo on this one, while I agree nothing for free comments, you can see a few of us here that bought 1.6 well I’m advance of its release were promised something that was much less than what was actually delivered. In fact, my conversations with the company at the time plus their marketing material promised e6 2.0 and through my conversations with the team at Truegolf we’re that many of the things that would be included are only now going to come out in this release. Thus essentially, my feeling is that I paid for the Connect version a number of years ago based on what was advertised to me. Thus, for me I am really only wanting to pay something marginal when I feel I have paid for what is now being delivered a number of years ago.

Jonny, you bought 1.6 when it was out and so you know what you were buying, which probably puts you in a different place from me for sure.

**mmlincon** · 03-29-2018, 11:04 PM

The subscription model is just that, subscription. There should be a monthly fee OR purchase cost. Not both. What is a new user buying for $2500? The right to pay $50/mo? Uh, no thanks? In other words, what do I get after I buy the software and can't afford the $50/mo? Nothing?

If existing owners could get their course packs upgraded and not use the engine of connect I'd be good with that and maybe pay a reasonable upgrade fee. I just don't like the idea of subscriptions in this industry. It doesn't fit the masses and really only benefits the vendor.

**col forbin** · 03-30-2018, 12:46 AM

Personally, I would love to pay a one time upgrade fee and have the ability to purchase the newer courses they release down the road. I don't like the idea of subscriptions/renting because I am old school, but I guess I have to adapt.

**JohnnyBill** · 03-30-2018, 05:17 AM

Leo I'm thinking whatever amount you paid you are considered to be an existing customer correct? So you would not pay for the upgrade software & subscription as I understand it. Just the subscription as long as you commit to 2 years. So it's $600 a year. I will refrain from saying $50 a month because you have a problem with that but in the end it's $600 a year.

You keep saying E6 Connect won't have any full content now or in 2 years. How do you know this? Can you give us details on what content we will get & what we won't get? You seem to know more details about what will be delivered at E6 connect launch so fill us in. What will exactly be available at launch? Maybe we can make a better informed decision.

I think if I understand you correctly you feel as though $300 a year is more reasonable based on the notion that there will not be enough features & content available at launch to justify the $600 a year price tag. Is that what your saying?

At the end of the day we will each have to decide what we consider to be a fair price & what we are looking to get out of the upgrade. For me & the guys I play with are more interested in the improved graphics & physics. Maybe later on we'll get into the online functions but as a group we're not really concerned about it. We like to play among ourselves. Like I have mentioned previously that even though I'm a private owner of the simulator over a dozen guys use it regularly & have committed to help pay for the subscription moving forward. When $600 is divided up among a dozen guys or so it's not too bad.

**LEO MODE** · 03-30-2018, 06:18 AM

Johnnybill, out of your entire posts, all I see is you emphasizing $600/yr or $50/month words more than 15 times. I used to work as a social media big data analyst so I like analyzing how people talk and what kind of words they use. Why do you want to defend that price so much to publicize that price to everyone else in the forum here, when there are clearly $0 option and $300/yr option? Sorry but no $600/yr will not be good money to start. I swear the way you write stuff remind me of someone....anyways, you should know better when they’ll release the products because it looks like you believe in your sales guy’s promises.

In reality, most of the people here had to wait a long time for their prior e6 launches and I personally was told by trugolf that e6 connect was supposed to launch last Oct of 2017, but because it delayed 6 months already, i think delaying 1-2 yrs is nothing special. Therefore I had the exact same experience as anyone else here. So please fill in that gaps for me as this should answer your question.

Lastly, remember, there are so many other software out there. If you’re a typical user, may I know why you haven’t looked at other software until now where you could’ve saved thousands of dollars by staying away from e6 but still be able to enjoy the sim golf you wanted to play? Why are you only talking about and inclined on e6? What do you know about other products and how did you end up coming here to just defend about this product especially when I started talking about one sales guy at trugolf giving me some 1980’s sales tactic speech? The more and more we talk the clearer the picture gets...

**penrose** · 03-30-2018, 01:31 PM

Here is my 2 cents. First I am very pleased there are options for us in the personal golf sim world. Just in the past 2 years many new options have been created. It is my opinion e6 is still living in the world from 5 years ago when there where not too many players around. They will have to either buy other companies, be bought out, lower their price, or go out of business.

Only time will tell if I am correct. I did predict about 4 months ago there would be NO TGC2 for the simulator market - but looking forward to 2018 version.

**JohnnyBill** · 03-30-2018, 05:11 PM

Leo - I try to answer your questions. I'm sorry I keep bringing up the price. It just seems it was a real sticking point for you. I'm sorry you were promised things that turned out to be incorrect. Those are problems you are having that's sucks. Super frustrating I'm sure. As for defending their pricing & policies it just comes down to my experience. Mine has been positive & yours has been negative. So you now attack their pricing & policies while I'm saying I have not had the same issues as you and my experience with them is the opposite. If a company is not to your liking or their product is out of your price range just move on to something else. You said it yourself. Lots of other options. No Need to drone on about the pricing being unfair in your opinion. I'm offering my viewpoint based on my experience. I wish yours was experience was the same as mine. I accept & understand it is not. You need to accept & understand mine.

Could you answer specifically what will be available at launch? You said no new content now or 1-2 years from now. That's what you said. I asked how you knew. I asked what will be available. Truth is you don't really know & are just guessing or you would have answered the question more specifically. It just bothers me when someone throws out random statements not based on facts but just based on what happened in the past which allows them to try & predict the future.

The reason I have a Trugolf simulator is when I bought it originally my choices were limited. I ended buying the prestige model in January 2014. I know other software exists but haven't considered it because I don't really know if it's compatible with the Trugolf setup I have. Maybe someone can offer their expertise on that. Not sure I have many options. I'm open to any suggestions you or someone else may have. If I can reconfigure my unit to work with other software that is just as good or cheaper I would consider it.

I have looked at skytrak (Not available in 2014) but we have some left handed guys in the group & would have to keep moving the unit back & forth constantly so I don't think that's a good option. Same would go for Foresight I guess. Leaves Flightscope & maybe Trackman?

**LEO MODE** · 03-31-2018, 05:29 AM

Johnnybill, there are at least 5-6 people talking about how bad the pricing is just in this post. As I said earlier, these people including myself have every rights to criticize and complement what is bad and good about the product. You don’t jump in and say all of us should shut up and move on because their experience was bad. No, if you like your product you should move on and play your game with your friends and not spending time defending the product and the company in this post. You are specifically talking to me just after I started talking about the sales rep there. My experience was a nightmare so I’m sharing this news. Had they been nicer to me and apologizing for not delivering what they promised, this would’ve been a different story.

If you want to continue the conversation about me and not the product, then PM me rather than saying the same thing over and over here. You started the conversation about me so continue it with me privately. As it stands, they’re delaying their product 6 months already and this has been a long history of them not delivering what they promised. So I’m not running around stating BS here. It is all fact and history so don’t feel bothered at all because you probably weren’t there for a long time.

**JohnnyBill** · 03-31-2018, 02:54 PM

1) Leo in a nutshell the only reason I originally responded to you was your post telling someone they should be given something for free. I pointed out I didn't think that free was obtainable. You later said I never said it should be free. I then pointed out the post where you said exactly that. You conveniently ignore that fact when I pointed it out. Did you or did you not say the update should be free for someone? It's a yes or no question. Has nothing to do with some dumb sale rep at all.

2) I ask you to tell me how you know specifically what will be available at launch after you tell everyone no new content now or in 1-2 years. You don't answer. because you're making stuff up. You don't know what will be available at all so why make those claims?

3) When & if I get the update I will report back with the FACTS & let everyone know what I found. I will give my honest opinion. If it sucks beyond belief I will say so & you can give me a big I told you so. I am holding my breath at this point because I didn't realize so many people have had difficulties dealing with Trugolf. But, in all honestly I guess there maybe a lot of those posts on any type of forums. Forums in general are where a lot of complaints get aired. People with positive experiences are less likely to share that in most cases. I guess I just felt as though I should share my positive experience. I mean heck after my sensor board malfunctioned after warranty expired I received a new one from Trugolf at no charge. That surprised me.

4) Leo I hope you find more positive experiences moving forward. I wish you well & good luck.

**LEO MODE** · 03-31-2018, 03:23 PM

This will be the last time I will be explaining to 2 points you’re thinking I didn’t answer. I answered you already above so if you ask me again, I will think you have some problems understanding people’s writing.

Answer 1) It doesn't matter if he's paying '$1200 for the upgrade' or '$1200 for 2 yr subscription with a free upgrade'. They literally mean the same thing with just wording them differently. Why? Because e6 won't have any full contents available NOW or let alone in 2 full years from now! That is an upgrade fee at this moment, and he will have to pay extra subscription fees on top of that. So, yes upgrade is not free because he will have to shell out extra cash for the first 2 years of inadequate contents.

Answer 2) In reality most of the people here had to wait a long time for their prior e6 launches and I personally was told by trugolf that e6 connect was supposed to launch last Oct of 2017, but because it delayed 6 months already, i think delaying 1-2 yrs is nothing special. Therefore I had the exact same experience as anyone else here. This should answer your question. Knowing exactly when and what will be launched? So what is the fact? Launching in Oct 2017 but not launching? What is the fact? Promised they will give you a free upgrade if you subscribe to 3 yr contract of $300? Those are all fact that has been going on. Do you know if those FACTS you’re talking about has happened?
Please let me know if full features will be launched in 2yrs (or 1 1/2yr now already), then we’ll talk again.

Now my question for you, and again send me a PM. The more and more you try to defend yourself and try to write it here publicly, all I can believe is that you’re affilated with trugolf. I sent you a PM so continue your conversation there. Looks like you’re online so if you can prove it to me within the next 10 minutes, it will show me that you don’t work for trugolf. If you get angry at it and cannot prove it to me or prove it after like 1hr although you’re online now, then I have nothing else to think otherwise.

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