To be real or not to be real?

[Maverick]

Set Optishot for real life distances or not?

[Buckeye]

We are never going to get anywhere at this rate of "my way or the highway". I think we should seek the truth... Not seek what would suite us best.

And I'm the guy who gets accused of giving ultimatums.

[fhann]

Here is some help with a driver software program that is free to download and it will clear up a lot of the misconception and errors that have been encountered. It is called Trajectoware.

http://forum.trajectoware.com/downlo...detail&df_id=2

In order to obtain a carry distance of 2.5 yards per each mph of clubhead speed then the golfer must hit the golf perfectly in line with the center of gravity of the clubhead, thereby acheiving a Smash factor of 1.5. Even missing the COG by 1/4 of an inch will not let the golf achieve a perfect smash factor of 1.5. On average, PGA tour players achieve an average smash factor of 1.485. Good amateur players will average 1.47. Therefore, ball speed is slightly lower than most people think it is. Roll out is dependent on the turf conditions of the golf course. I play a well watered course, and get 2 yards roll-out in the spring, with a maximum rollout of 14 yards during the driest conditions of the summer. My carry distance is on average 228 yards, with 97 mph swing speed. Note, that this is an average that accounts for mishits. My better shots are slightly higher with a clubhead speed of 102 mph. This is verified on my Flightscope X2 launch monitor that I have for my clubfiting/making business.

With the Trajectoware program, please keep the following max and min values for angle of descent of the ball when it lands on the ground. Angle of descent value should be no higher than 37 degrees for maximum total distance for moist conditions and no lower than 34 degrees for dry conditions.

I caution everyone that just because one might have a swing speed radar, that ball speeds are not as high as everyone has predicted on this thread because we are not good enough to achieve perfect smash factors and ball launch conditions with the proper trajectory and spin.

My garage studio is too cold right now and I don't wish to hit balls out there under the present cold conditions. I have the Optishot simulator that is presently incorporated to be used in conjunction with with my Flightscope X2. I will be testing as weather permits to get a good correlation between the simulator and a fully reliable launch monitor.

Best of luck


Frank Hann
Engineered Golf

[John D]

Just did some quick testing downstairs. Setup is as follows , OptiShot I running Optshot II software, aftermarket thick hitting mat (level with stance area) real ball,rubber tee sitting on top of mat, impact screen, ES12 ballspeed measuring device. I hit drives with Opti set at 100% speed 100%distance, 95% distance and 90% distance. Any differences in the ES12 readings for the same swing speeds helps illustrate the quality of contact.( heel, toe, high, low, etc) I had a couple misreads on the 100% and 90% that were way past any distance I would normally hit, I will not include those. Range settings were calm , medium speed fairways ( not sure if that matters on the range.) Limitations for the ES12 are that it doesn't know your driver loft or launch angle, it just uses a preprogrammed club spec.

100 % distance setting
Opti ES12
Swing Speed Distance Ball Speed Distance
94 263 136 237
94 261 139 243
92 255 139 243
101 277 140 245
94 259 136 237

95% Distance Setting

94 254 133 232
92 244 137 240
96 255 139 243
94 254 142 249
92 242 141 246
94 256 133 232
96 254 143 251
92 247 141 246

90% Distance Settting

92 240 136 237
92 239 137 240
94 243 137 240
105 269 143 251
92 235 133 232

From what I can see it would appear , at least for me anyways that a setting of 90-91% would be pretty good.( been playing my 4W at 91% to get it accurate. The ES12 readings are very close to what I see in the real world, remembering that it does not take into account any wind or elevation changes. I have measured all my distances for every drive for the last two years using a Garmin GPS and have averaged 238yds. outside.




























92 255 141 246

[John D]

Format was changed when posted so it's a little jumbled. The first two numbers are the Opti SS and Distance, the second two are ES12 Ball Speed and Distance

[Maxxx]

Hey John I use the almostgolf golf balls off very thick turf as the original got hacked up pretty bad fast ! Has anyone thought about how wide the white tape on the bottom of the club could change the speed going over the sensors ? I have about an inch and a half. If you use a half inch would your swing speed increase ? Hahah more testing for all 😂

Your testing is bang in line with mine and auris, 277 at 109 ss is ratio 2.54, so maybe try again at 89% and should be on the money

However this is a lot better than we were at 100 distance so a definite step in right direction

Yours is s bit of a specialist case due to the increase height of your turf

Need some foam ball users with standard turf to do some testing, at 100/100 90/100 89/100
90/90 89/89

If we can get a full set of data for these different combinations one of them hopefully will be a best fit combo

I know joe, and auri have this setup so need them and at least one more to test so between them testing those 6 combos should be able to get some decent data

Myself willy and I think maxxx all hit real balls, with myself and will already getting 2.5 ratio results at 100/90 setting, so hopefully when maxxx hits his (may have already done it) we can get a definite set of data there

Vega has confirmed data for foam ball users with thick turf

May need to test real ball user with thick turf. I would guess they may need to increase their speed %

Willy you definitely on standard turf?

[Vincent_Vega]

Format was changed when posted so it's a little jumbled. The first two numbers are the Opti SS and Distance, the second two are ES12 Ball Speed and Distance

Thanks John

[fhann]

John D:

Your numbers and testing seem to be almost exactly what I expect for correct distance based on ES12 ball speeds. Your third set of numbers on the Optishot are quite a good fit to IRL conditions in my opinion. A quick comparison of your estimate versus LPGA average is included. I do suspect that you might be losing some potential distance in that you might be launching a little too low. See LPGA launch angle and spin rate and how they maximize their distance.

Frank Hann
Engineered Golf

Input Values				Output Values		1W		Comparison		LPGA
Comparison Player		2		Club Speed (approx)		96	mph		94	mph
Club		1W		Ball Speed		138	mph		139	mph
Ball Speed		138	mph	Launch Angle		11.0	degrees		14	degrees
Initial Trajectory		11	degrees	Initial Backspin		3000	rpm		2628	rpm
Initial Backspin		3000	rpm
				Maximum Height		21	yards		25	yards
				Flight Time		5.3	seconds		5.3	seconds
				Horizonal Carry		208	yards		220	yards
				Total Distance		238	yards		246	yards
				Lateral Carry		0	yards		11	yards
				Impact Trajectory		-31	degrees		-36	degrees

[HWoods]

Great posts fhann, we should hire you as a consultant. The pay might not be too good though...

[John D]

My tape is 7/8" wide

[CatMan]

Guys where are you at on this? Anything solid???

[CatMan]

Gents we also need some figures for a 3Wood that is used in Place of a Driver... So these players are not punished because of clearance.. 3wood distance should match the Driver...

Not sure if the settings would be any different but in reality should be different...

[Mike80]

Hey guys thanks for all this testing. I think we are making good progress that will help the board come to a good solution. Obviously we all know that the OptiShot is way off. I think all of us can agree the distances are way too long and in many cases the distances are a little high as well. Here are my results with my testing. My Test 5 I think was the best for me with Speed: 97% ~ Distance: 89%

I have 3/4 thick monster tee turf and use a 2 3/4" tee

Test 1: Speed: 100% ~ Distance: 89%
Speed ~ Distance
96 ~ 244
98 ~ 251
107 ~ 261
106 ~ 261
101 ~ 253
104 ~ 260
101 ~ 256
103 ~ 249 (toe)
109 ~ 276
104 ~ 259
Average: 103 ~ 257

Test 2: Speed: 90% ~ Distance: 90%
Speed ~ Distance
96 ~ 244
95 ~ 243
93 ~ 234
94 ~ 245
91 ~ 232
Didn't write one shot down
Average: 93 ~ 238

Test 3: Speed: 95% ~ Distance: 90%
Speed ~ Distance
95 ~ 236
93 ~ 243
97 ~ 247
95 ~ 242
92 ~ 240
Average: 94 ~ 242

Test 4: Speed: 96% ~ Distance: 90%
Speed ~ Distance
94 ~ 241
96 ~ 249
102 ~ 263
105 ~ 254
98 ~ 254
Average: 99 ~ 255

Test 5: Speed: 97% ~ Distance: 89%
Speed ~ Distance
100 ~ 252
108 ~ 274 (think a misread here)
98 ~ 249
98 ~ 244
102 ~ 256
98 ~ 247
Average: 99.2 ~ 249.6

[Mike80]

I think everyone needs to get involved with testing and hopefully we can all come up with a fixed Driver setting that is very realistic or close for most. Then if we can get 90% of the field to agree on the number we can implement that as a rule. Then if someone wants to go higher than the agree upon settings then they should be required to post a video of their swing speed and distance on a TrackMan, GC2, FlightScope or another accurate unit. They their speed/distance is true then it shouldn't be a problem providing a video to the board.

We will need to come up with the following:
- Fixed Driver Speed & Distance settings for regular driver on Real Ball
- Fixed Driver Speed & Distance settings for regular driver on Foam Ball
- Fixed Driver Speed & Distance settings for regular driver for No Ball (if we allow people to play with no ball)
- Fixed Driver Speed & Distance settings for driver using a 3 Wood (for the ceiling height clearance issue)
- Also for Drives only we only want to allow Shot Type on regular height. Because we all know if you move shot type higher you gain 15 yards or so.

Everyone, there will be no one fix for all, but a truly believe if we can all agree on something close then this league will become a lot more realistic and better than before. Remember now we are playing against of a lot of Tiger Woods out there representing more of a video game. Doesn't everyone want this to be more realistic.

So I propose that soon we all come to a close setting to test and then vote whether it should be implemented or have the board vote. Just my thoughts!

[CatMan]

Mike I think your Numbers almost are identical to the 2.5 factor.. Good Stuff

[John D]

Fhann, my averages over the last two years includes ALL my drives, even the under 200 yard mishits. I use an 11* Wishon driver , get pretty good height, opti is set to 11* medium ball flight. Going to try a 12* Ping Rapture this year, I tee the ball low.